Saturday, May 23, 2015

My Thoughts on the Duggars

When the news of Josh Duggar first hit my Facebook newsfeed on Thursday morning, when only InTouch (not exactly reputable) was covering it and there was talk of one victim and few details, I told my husband three things: 

- This is not the end of it, and the rest will all hit the fan before the day is up.
- The show will be discontinued.
- People will be asking us for our take on this. 

Sadly, all three of my predictions have come true. This blog post is intended to address that third point.




Before I do, some disclaimers:

- I do not know the Duggar family personally, and have never met any of them.
- I have watched all their specials and regular shows since they became available through Amazon video-on-demand, but always fully aware of the fact that nothing on TV is ever real. As many others, I enjoy seeing and learning from the daily workings of a large family.
- I have not read the police reports, only scanned over a few pages of it very briefly. My blog post is based on information found in news articles, and my opinions might be different if I had more knowledge of the situation. Therefore, as more details are sure to emerge, my take on all this might change.
- We have for years held and publicly stated that the Duggars are liberal and worldly, even as they are known for being "fundamentalists". Maybe their beliefs are, but what they are publicly willing to take a stand for is weak and anemic. Example: Never answering whether or not they spank their children, which they obviously did, while telling the world over and over again about their positive approach of praising good behavior. Deceptive at best.

For those who wondered, here are my thoughts:

- I believe that all pedophiles are reprobates, that they are unregenerate and in fact can never change, and that they, like all sexual deviants, should be executed as the Bible demands, lest they spread their abusive ways and corrupt more innocent lives. 

- I do not believe that pedophiles or other deviants who claim to have found God are telling the truth. I believe this is a lie they tell to gain access to easy targets, namely children in church, at camp, etc.

- The Duggars, it seems, have always been running in circles known to attract freaks and weirdos. Sadly, many Christians who grow sick of churches pushing birth control, Christian school, and nurseries find themselves attracted to the home church, repentance, patriarchal crowd. From what I have read, it seems the Duggars left a soulwinning, independent Baptist church to join a "home church," and later got tied in with ATI and Vision Forum, the heads of which have both resigned amidst sex scandals involving much younger women. Guarding our kids against abuse in this day and age is vital. 

- I have zero doubt whatsoever that for Joshua Duggar to do what he did (to his own sisters no less), he himself at some time before that, or even at that point in time, was the subject of abuse. 

- Not all who are abused become abusers themselves, and it is never an excuse. I do believe that without the perpetrators being punished properly (which would be swift execution), it is virtually impossible for victims to overcome abuse, unless they have the Holy Spirit of God to help them through it.

- The Duggars promote a false gospel that calls for "repentance from sins," rather than, what the Bible teaches, a turning from false religion or whatever else we are trusting to get us into heaven other than Jesus. While I have know many good Christians who truly were saved become mixed up in this doctrine of "there will be / has to be some change," many of which later reversed course and realized that their definition of repentance was works salvation, the Duggars push this point more than most, and associate with obviously false prophets such as Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, promote the damnable "Hell's best kept secret," etc. Because of this, I have only ever given them a 50/50 chance of truly being saved. Unless I talked to them in person, it is impossible for me to give my opinion on it accurately just because as with everything else, they are so wishy-washy it's hard to put a finger on it. I give their children even less of a chance of being saved, since it seems all they have ever known is this false gospel crowd.

- Being popular and loved by the world is another sign of a false prophet. Then again, while the Duggars enjoyed immense popularity, it was hardly for their Bible preaching/teaching, but rather for their unusual family size and lifestyle. Remember, the show does not promote virtually any doctrine, at all. Besides, they had vehement and vocal haters, too. So their rock star status may or may not be an indicator of being a false prophet. 

- It is ridiculous of all these Christian blogs to go on and on about how we are all sinners, we all need grace and forgiveness, etc. Yes, that is all true - but we are not all pedophiles. That is an unnatural desire, only experienced by a reprobate. Even the world, which is happy to excuse most sins and licentious living, is still horrified by child abuse. No, forgiving a pedophile is not a great picture of what the gospel is all about. They have crossed a line where not even God is willing to forgive - why should we?

- Yet with all that being said, and I know I will draw immense hate for this from the trolls on this site, I am not convinced beyond any doubt that Josh Duggar himself had reached that point of being a reprobate pedophile when he did what he did. 

One report stated the incident took place the month he turned 14 years old. I consider anyone that is pre-puberty to be a child. Our oldest, who will be 14 in September, is just now in the very beginning stages of puberty from all I can ascertain (thank you, growth hormone-free meat and dairy). Even for a child of course such behavior is vile, perverted, and sinful, and they should and often do know better. But they are not always acting on their own lusts and desires, but in foolishness they are acting out what they themselves have been exposed to. The unpardonable sin of sexual deviance is the fact that they burn with lust after the same gender, after animals, after (in this case) children. Is that what Josh Duggar felt at age 14, or was he, who I am sure was a victim of abuse himself since his family runs in circles replete with reprobates, just acting out the abuse carried out on him earlier, or even at that time? I have no way of knowing the answer to this question for sure. Neither do I need to know, since it is between him and God. He doesn't go to my church or ever have access to my kids, so I need not waste my time trying to make this important distinction.

My heart breaks for the victims, who will only be able to get over this by the power of God. I am sickened for the children in the family who likely have never been informed of this before, and whose entire lives have just been turned upside down. Imagine that's your Dad that was just declared to the world to be a pedophile. The new spouses - were they told of issues their young wives are likely to carry with them for life? How to live with such a burden of shame, that has reached international proportions? What great harm has been done to the Bible and God's way, by allowing a family to be lifted up to such popularity, when this was sure to come out sooner or later, and waved high and low as a banner for why the Bible is wrong and progressives are right. Who are the people that make a living of trying to dig up past evil on a 14-year old?

It was reckless and irresponsible of the Duggars to allow themselves to rise to stardom, knowing about such "skeletons" in the closet. Even if we set aside "Be sure your sin will find you out," it was insane to think they could become celebrities, and this not come to light with as many people as were involved in it. Did they consider the repercussions on their son's life, who would even under the best of circumstances have been reeling to recover from this (if that is even possible)? Did they think the world, who was looking for any way to attack them, was going to look the other way on this? Great shame has been brought upon the cause of Christ through their desire to be rich, popular, or both.

So, a sad story all around, on every level. One that brings shame, to some degree, on anyone who names the name of Christ.

~~~~~~

To read an addendum to this post, "Not everyone is a closet pedophile," please CLICK HERE. 

118 comments:

  1. I dearly love the Duggar family, and have learned so much from their books. I am definitely praying for all involved in this sad situation.

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    1. Honey, pray for yourself first.

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    2. unfortunately he should be put to death for this .......sad but true!! LOVE THIS POST, GREAT JOB!!!!! keep em comin!!! :):)

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  2. I LOVE YOU FOR THIS. I have never been so grieved in my LIFE. We should MOURN as 1 Corinthians 5 says. All of this is so damaging to true believers on the Lord Jesus Christ. What a strong delusion people are under to defend his actions. I would have said that InTouch's intentions were nefarious, but for that fact that SUCH A VILE story should not even be named among believers. Ephesians 5 says it all, amongst COUNTLESS other chapters of the Bible.

    God help his sisters/the victims who have had to live with the shame of this all this time.

    Colossians 2 rebukes their outward show of "chastity" and the whole "courtship" deal:

    Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    What an absolute HELL that has broken loose! All the sodomites and liberals are doubly wicked and perverted because Romans 2:1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."

    HELP LORD FOR THE GODLY MAN CEASETH, FOR THE FAITHFUL FAIL FROM AMONG THE CHILDREN OF MEN.

    GOD BLESS YOU AND YOURS.

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    1. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him TWOFOLD MORE THE CHILD OF HELL than yourselves. - Matthew 23:15

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    2. "No, forgiving a pedophile is not a great picture of what the gospel is all about. They have crossed a line where not even God is willing to forgive – why should we?”... “Maybe, just maybe, God was right all along. If we would execute these molesters and pedophiles, they would not have infiltrated society,”

      Do you have a direct link to G-d's thoughts on pedophilia?

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  3. 1 Timothy 6:10 - For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    Until I read your post, I thought I was insane. Thanks so much for posting!

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  4. What a circus.

    This is obviously political. I’m sure InTouch had a tip-off from the government (possibly even from someone in Hilary Clinton’s camp) because of Josh Duggar’s political ties with presidential candidates like Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz etc. The FRC oppose the agenda of the liberal and sodomites, even though I deem the FRC to have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. This is about silencing the Word of God, persecuting true believers and forwarding a wicked agenda! Whether we like it or not, the Duggars were somewhat (falsely) representing independent baptists, believers, homeschoolers, large families etc. The Duggars have caused a lot of division! The Devil is behind this absolute carnage in the media. Josh Duggar's name was trending worldwide on Twitter for a long time!

    The whole thing is absolutely strategic and evil on one hand, but on the other, SHAME on the Duggars for selling out and pimping their whole family for cold hard cash! The cursed causeless shall not come. I'm sorry, but they are reaping what they've sown. This should come as a strong warning from God above that whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap!

    I wonder what the Duggars’ religious buddies and false prophets have to say. Mike Huckabee has already chimed in, obviously because of his vested interest. Eric Hovind has done the same because he’s a wicked false prophet anyway.

    Sigh. What a mess.

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    1. This has been rumoured online since 2007, though.

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    2. Rumoured online in 2007 is different to being broadcast WORLDWIDE in 2015.

      An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire. (Proverbs 16:27)

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    3. In light of the Ashley Madison debacle are you still blaming Hilary Clinton and "government" or are your brain cells now firing correctly to conclude that Joshua Duggar is a pig who made horrible choices? Hilary Clinton doesn't care at all about Joshua Duggar or his idiotic parents and to suggest she does is juvenile and naive.

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  5. Thank you for this. Thank you. Thank you so much. I am glad that there are Christians who admit that what he did was wrong. God bless you.

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  6. It's a TV SHOW. We're not Christians FOR SHOW. Shame on the Duggars!

    And getting a TV show cancelled is hardly persecution! My goodness, what has become of our testimony??

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  7. Do you think these verse apply or not?

    Mark 9:42
    And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

    Matthew 18:6
    But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

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  8. Two things:

    1. Would to God that the tribulation started tomorrow!
    2. If not, then it’s times like these that make me wish the pre-trib rapture wasn’t such an unbiblical fraud! Haha. Just my flesh, y’all. Just my flesh :P

    Even so, Come, Lord Jesus!

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  9. I read the entire police report. What you referred to as 'the incident' is better described as a series of incidents over the course of 2 years against 5 underage girls, 4 of whom were his own kin. He is reprobate.

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    1. Yeah. It continued on and his parents hid it. It was only brought to light when a 61 year old woman from their church emailed the Oprah show. Oprah was going to have them on but instead she reported them when she received the email. Everyone in their church knew because Josh confessed at church. None of the children received counseling. Also Josh was given a stern talking to from Jim Bob's friend who was a cop. The cop is now in jail for child pornography. Josh wasn't a child that made a mistake. He continued molesting for two years. The youngest victim was five years old. Gawker.com did a summary of the whole thing.

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  10. Thanks for stating that sexual abuse and incest is unforgivable, as a lot of people have been defending Josh Duggar

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  11. I appreciate your take on this. I'm shocked and appalled that any in the Christian community would stand behind him. I do believe that God can heal and forgive anyone, but at the same time, this was not a one-time thing. He did it, and he continued to do it. And he still doesn't seem particularly sorry with his halfway apology about it ruining HIS life.

    Thank you for speaking out.

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  12. Pastor Anderson’s sermon on “Resist the Devil” comes to mind. He only preached that not too long ago as well! What a timely message at this time. His quote is very apt "they are just tools of the media to brainwash you!!!"

    About your point about the Duggars being false prophets: those were some of the verses I turned to when this thing broke out. Mormons, Catholics, JfW’s, Pentecostals, Jews, SDA’s, Charismatics, Lordship Salvationists, Calvinists etc loved their show. The devil has used them greatly to forward an ecumenical agenda, I think. They seem like unlikely candidates, but if we’re honest, it’s true.

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    1. I'm Catholic, and I love Jesus with my whole heart, my whole soul, and my whole mind. I hated 19 Kids and Counting. I don't care who tells me that I'm not a Christian because I am 110% positive that I am.

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    2. catn=holics aren't christian hah

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    3. Mormons, Catholics, Pentacostals, and even Calvinists (Like pilgrims from the 1700's???) Wow I think you left everyone out except the Anabaptists.


      So, Basically ALL types of christians like this show, except you and like 10 other people in some werid, obscure, random miscellaneous church that's not affiliated with ANY other kind of Christianity, that's only within driving distance of a few thousand people in the middle of nowhere? What KIND of Christian are you if you're not in any of these categories? You're like the hipster of fundamentalist Christians! Do you have your bible quotes on vintage LP's?

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    4. Search the sermon "Repentance and Salvation" by pastor Anderson on his YouTube channel sanderson1611.

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    5. Christian: a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings. Catholics fit the bill. Sorry.

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  13. "It is ridiculous of all these Christian blogs to go on and on about how we are all sinners, we all need grace and forgiveness, etc. Yes, that is all true - but we are not all pedophiles. That is an unnatural desire, only experienced by a reprobate. Even the world, which is happy to excuse most sins and licentious living, is still horrified by child abuse. No, forgiving a pedophile is not a great picture of what the gospel is all about. They have crossed a line where not even God is willing to forgive - why should we?"

    This is exactly how I feel and I am truly disgusted by the way this was handled by all involved. Part of me agrees that Josh was molested as a young child, but part of me wonders why wasn't the person part of the initial investigation. Is someone protecting the person who hurt Josh (if there is such a person)?

    I was molested as a young child and but thankfully only have the faintest memories of it and it really did not do any lasting damage. I only learned about it because I asked my mom about some weird memories I had. My heart breaks for Josh's victims, especially his sisters, to have someone you trust and expect to protect you be the one who harms you must be devastating.

    ~ Traci

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  14. THANK YOU for this!!! Everyone has been saying put them back on tv and at first I thought so too... but when I found out it was actually his sisters he touched, not some other woman who was around his age and not related to him, that changed my mind. Thank you for providing a good, Biblical response!! :)

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    1. Can you explain why it would have been better if some other non-related person was molested by him? And if not you, can somebody else? I don't understand the distinction at all.

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  15. I hope some good can come of this global shaming, especially for the victims. I don't have much faith that it will as I am too cynical. Your last three paragraphs summed up my thoughts on this horrible situation. I am reluctant to condemn a 14 yrs old predator because he may have been acting out abuse he received. I think children can be helped or that because they are not adults, we ought to try. Ultimately the Duggar parents love, or desperate need for money clouded their thinking. Of course this would've come out at some point.

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  16. Excellent written blog post on a horrific story. There is a lot to learn from all this.

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  17. I feel a combination of overwhelming anger and grief over this whole situation. Several times over the past few days I've literally been too heavy with grief to cry even though I've really wanted to break down crying. I love the lost of this world, so to know that many of them might be turned away from the Gospel for good because of all this chicanery breaks my heart! It truly does!

    Also I'm sorry to say it, but Anna Duggar and her family just wanted to be in on a money making scam of a TV show/family. A lot of them wanted to use the show as a launchpad for their various "ministries" and "callings". Now the hand of the Almighty God is against them.

    Romans 2:24 - For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

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  18. Romans 16:17-18:
    Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

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  19. ZSU!!!! YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTE ANGEL SENT AS A VOICE OF REASON FROM THIS CHAOS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO DEFEND THESE HORRIBLE PEOPLE.

    Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!

    You're right, the victims needed god but I also think while they were younger and the incident was still fresh, they should have sought counseling. And not this cult-like ATI Bill Gothard type counseling, but christian counseling that also acknowledges psychological issues. These girls are HUMAN BEINGS. Their father's order since birth has been to protect their virtue and he failed to do that.

    I think the show needs to be cancelled for good, because it returning might only be harmful in regards to the fact that these poor girls have been outed as the victims.

    I am hoping and counting on them being able to lead normal lives now. I'm so DISGUSTED that their father insisted on exploiting them so soon after this.

    A MISTAKE IS ACCIDENTALLY TOUCHING SOMEONE INAPPROPRIATELY, A MANIPULATIVE MOLESTER IS SOMEONE WHO HAS EMOTIONAL POWER OVER THOSE YOUNGER THAN HIM AND CONTROLS THEM FOR HIS OWN GAIN.

    THANK YOU ZSU! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!

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  20. Thank you for posting this! I can't believe people are defending this.

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  21. One thing that bothers me about the whole thing is that JimBob knew it was going on (he had been told or caught Josh) and yet it continued. The show didnt start until 2008. At the time all of it was going on, he was an Arkansas state rep and running for US State Senate. You can't (appear to) be ultra conservative and have your son sexually abusing your daughters so he HAD to keep it hushhush in order to protect HIS image. Not protect his daughters.....but his image. So so sad the whole thing is.

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  22. Although I love Pastor Anderson's sermons and your blog, I don't think it's Biblical at all to say that a person has 'crossed a line where not even God is willing to forgive.'
    Jesus died for the sins of EVERY MAN, the WHOLE world, ALL, the UNGODLY, the UNRIGHTEOUS. You or I may not be able to forgive a paedophile, (infact I will rip their heads off if they ever came near my child, and I'm all for the death penalty regarding these crimes), let alone die for one, but the Bible makes it clear that Jesus did forgive and die for them. The Bible clearly states that ALL sin is forgiven except the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. All sins are forgiven, except the the rejection of the knowledge of truth, which the Holy Spirit reveals to a person. If they reject the truth, what other sacrifice for sin/path to righteousness is there? That's why it's the 'unpardonable sin'. You cannot just limit 'vile affections' to homos, paedophiles, and bestiality. What about people that enjoy murdering others, torturing them, rape, gerontophilia? They are vile affections too. The heart is loaded with an abundance of evil things. We can't limit God's grace to what we think he can or can't forgive by our own emotions. Whether or not that person will be granted the change of mind to come to Jesus for salvation is another question though. There have been a lot of testimonies about sinners you claim to be reprobate coming to Christ for forgiveness. Granted, they could very well be false professions, but if they did really come to Jesus, we know He won't cast them out. (John 6: 37) Be careful making blanket statements about what sin God can or cannot forgive when it's stated numerous times that he died for the sins of all (1 Tim 2:6, Isaiah 53:6, 1 Tim 4:10, Romans 8:32, 5.6, 5:18, Hebrews 2:9, John 3:16, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4.14, John 4.42). All means all.

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    1. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you for pointing us back to scripture on this point, anonymous.

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    2. So true! My thoughts exactly. None of us are perfect Christ died for sinners.....all sinners. We need to realize our need for a Savior and thankfully, He forgives us when we ask.

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    3. Yes, thank you for pointing that out! I wanted to say the same thing. I wouldn't be able to forgive a pedophile, but God can.

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    4. Thank you for your comment. You are right, in that I did not correctly express myself in my original post (which I will not edit at this point because that would seem dishonest).

      There is only one unpardonable sin, which is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. And yes, if anyone asks God to forgive/save them, He will do so. He will not turn anyone away who comes to Him for salvation.

      The point I should correctly have made, and the situation that applies to reprobates such as pedophiles, homosexuals, an others with a seared conscience is that they will not ever ask God to save them, because their hearts and minds have been given over to that of an animal. They became a reprobate because they hated God and did not want to retain him in their knowledge. The horrendous acts they commit are not the reason they are unforgiven, they are a symptom of the fact that they are reprobates who will never turn to God after having rejected him again and again.

      If you think there is hope for these people, more power to you. It's your time you are wasting in trying to evangelize them, not mine. It would be no skin off my back, in fact it would be a blessing, for these people to get saved and live with the Holy Ghost directing them, rather than spreading their filth and abuse. However, I am certain they are past that point, will never acknowledge God or their need for salvation, and will go on working evil until they die. Which is why both the Old and New Testament say they should be executed.

      Christians are fine with the death penalty for murderers. But the Bible also prescribes it in those same passages for rapists, adulterers, homosexuals, etc.

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    5. Whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life freelyMay 26, 2015 at 3:37 PM

      Hi again Zsuzsanna,

      I just wrote a lengthy 2-part post (yet to be approved) regarding this response. I hope it doesn't come across as aggressive or anything like that by the way.

      Thank you so much for correcting yourself here, what you've said here 100% lines up with the Bible and so I'm glad I know where you stand now!

      The sexual perversion and sick lusts are a symptom of someone being a reprobate as you've now correctly stated yourself, thanks again for clearing this up :)

      God Bless you and your husband, and your church!

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    6. You are way off here zsu,i have no idea who you think you are with your ideas of pedophilia,i am writing a book about my life with a seventh day Adventist mad man for a father,you have no concept of the mind control,the fear,the ritual abuse that happens,EGW wrote to the sda church that a families secrets stay just that,between family and their god,that the sins of a man are to be locked inside a woman's heart,that she carry the burden of the offenses he carries out because after all he is evil and can't help it,you don't even know what we went through as kids,incest and molestation were rampant in our church when I was a kid,as were the invitations to mediums and satanists in our church openly and freely,you have no idea what is actually happening

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  23. this is so refreshing to read and I thank you for writing it.

    What he did was horrifying and what his parents did to cover it up makes me sick.

    I hope you and Pastor Anderson keep preaching truth we need it now more than ever I am dismayed at how many people are supporting him!

    Many prayers and blessings for your family
    Miriam

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  24. I'm convinced there is NO SIN you cannot get victory over. And I'm happy God is the only one who will judge this man in the end. http://www.brunstad.org/en/christian-commentary/overcoming-sexual-temptation

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  25. You know what? I'm sorry for how this may sound, but I've actually been praying for this for a long time. I've been hoping that someday the Duggars would be exposed for what they truly are.

    Having said that, WOW, I didn't expect it to happen this way! This couldn't be more tragic.

    The Book of Jude comes to mind.

    This particular verse sticks out in verse 11:
    Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

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    1. You prayed for their downfall?

      Yes that does sound terrible

      . Why not just pray they see the light and take their family out of the limelight and live right?

      This affects us all! It will be the poster family for "look at those hypocritical conservatives, always banjo strumming and hiding incest".

      . By the time Hollywood and the government are done (those two things being basically one and the same), main stream people will be begging for the government to make Christianity illegal.

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    2. No one prayed for anyone else's downfall.

      In this instance with the Duggars, they are publicly exposed as utter frauds that they truly are. It's a shame it had to be this messy and unfortunate. But why continue to be deceived and deceive for dishonest gain? You really think they would have given all their deception a second thought with all the millions of dollars tied to their lies? Really?

      The Duggars didn't mistakenly get themselves wrapped up in a TV show and all their business deals. They did it with wicked and dishonest intentions for filthy lucre. They duped millions! They taught a works salvation that will send MANY to hell forever! Thank God they've been exposed! IT'S ENOUGH. God has called TIME.

      The worst part? The Duggars consider it their glory - oh God turned it out for good anyway, so it's not a big deal. It was a "mistake" as they said.

      Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. They've exposed themselves. They were wolves in sheeps' clothing all along. Now it's undeniable. They behaved themselves like any old FALSE prophet. And with false prophets you pray that they'll be exposed.

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    3. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 15:13-15)

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    4. "I'm sorry for how this may sound, but I've actually been praying for this for a long time. I've been hoping that someday the Duggars would be exposed for what they truly are"


      Doesnt get much clearer than that. That's praying for someone's downfall. I think that is disgusting. It sounds extremely high 'n' mighty and even jealous.

      I can't stand the Duggars .

      But I never sat around waiting for something like this because a) it makes Christians look bad b) I have better things to do.

      And so should you.

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    5. I think you're just getting emotional, Shelby. It's clear what the person meant. They even clarified their point with "Having said that, WOW, I didn't expect it to happen this way! This couldn't be more tragic."

      No need to go off with all your railing accusations of them being "jealous" etc.

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    6. Hey she can rail about whatever she wants. The Duggars aren't her enemy so why pray that way. It just seems wrong and I agree.

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  26. "when this was sure to come out sooner or later, and waved high and low as a banner for why the Bible is wrong and progressives are right"

    Yes it was sure to.come out. Once the execs made their money they moved to phase 2...."embarrass/shame/expose the Christian". They knew. They probably leaked the info.

    The production company hate Christians. The produce muck to make Christians look bad. As does all of hollyweird. This was a diabolical scheme. They found a family to hold up, garner a following and then just let them trip over themselves. They hardly had to do a thing.




    And the Duggars, being greedy, worldly, zio Christians fell right into it.

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  27. Thank you for saying this Zsuzanna. There are so many people who claim to be good Christians who are saying that what Josh did was just a mistake, not a big deal, and that just because he said he was sorry, it makes it all okay.

    Yes, nobody is perfect, we all sin sometimes, and there is not a single person who can ever honestly admit that they have never done a single thing wrong. People forget that some sins are worse than others. Theyre talking about it like Josh was caught stealing candy, not molesting his young sisters. Everyone sins, but some sins are minor, and some are the worst of the worst, like murder, rape and child abuse. Equating someone who molested five little girls to someone who lied, stole or was rude to someone minimises the abuse that the girls lived through.

    I hope that one day, all of these girls (and the rest of their kids too) can get away from the evil that is ATI, away from all of the corrupt child molesters and con artists claiming to be Christian, and realise that there are Christians in the world who are honest and support them instead of the system that failed them and the brother who molested them.

    Im just hoping and praying that they are okay right now, because I imagine them in that house, upset because they are reminded of the horrors they went through everywhere they turn, not allowed to express their feelings on it, because their parents are telling them that they should forgive Josh and pretend it never happened.

    We must all stand with the Duggar girls, not with their abuser! I cant believe people are defending him, and the parents who covered it up and allowed their children to be exploited by TLC.

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  28. This must be how many people in Israel felt when David's sin with Bathsheba came to light. This should be used as a terrifying reminder that God will not let any sin remain secret forever, and this goes for both the saved and unsaved.

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  29. God bless you, Zsuzsanna! God bless and preserve you, pastor Anderson, your family and FWBC. Never back down from the TRUTH!

    According to reports, Josh wasn't saved when he molested his younger sisters (Joy-Anna was the youngest then at 5 years old!!!!!!). But then after that, "he gave his life to Christ". Aww, well thanks Josh, that makes me feel all better now knowing that...NOT.

    Ephesians 5:11-12
    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
    12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

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  30. Ok, ok.

    Now most of the comments in defence of Josh and the Duggars/his parents that I read get me riled up and angry. But when I read this comment on Josh Duggar’s Instagram page, I burst out laughing!!!! (Then anger followed of course. Judas repented too btw.)

    “Josh regrets everything and he's sorry. he's been baptized you need to stop saying these mean things”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. BAPTIZED???? Well that just solves everything, doesn't it!! What a joke.

      Delete
  31. I agree with your every word! We used to watch the Duggars, but grew more and more annoyed with their phony Bologna!!! We also tried ATI curriculum but quickly realized how cult like it all was, and quit immediately. The people who drool over them are maddening and it is ridiculous that they can stick up for him over such a wicked sin!!!!! I've been saying the Duggars are leading many astray for years and making those of us that love God and believe The Bible, well they're making us look like idiots!!!! Shame on them.... Wake up people!!!!the Duggars are a shame. Phew, needed to get that off my chest. Oh and Bill Gothard is a pervert as well as Doug Philips, people are blind sheep. So glad you said something!!!!!

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  32. Psalm 12:8
    The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

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  33. I have been reading this blog for some years and I have always thought that even though you claim other christias believing the false gospel and works salvation, I ca see clear traces of works salvation in your doctrine. Your "works" might not be repentance or good deeds, but it is the right understanding of the gospel (= what ever your husband comes up). And please don't say, but my husband preaches the Biblical truth... All pastors claim to do that, but they still come to different conclusions. Your husband might know his Bible well but he's still fallible as are all human. If the right undertanding of the gospel is the ground of your salvation then its no longer God that saves you and you can never be sure of your salvation because you have been left on your own. In Acts during the Pentecost the men come to Peter and ask what can we do in order to be saved. He then answers: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    During the times of the early church they didn't have the whole New Testament, tradition was passed mainly orally with the help of fragments, Old testament and letters. I'm pretty sure that doctrine was, well, quite "colourful" in different places. Paul and Peter didn't always agree, but instead claiming Peter a false prophet Paul corrected him. The reason why they could consider them selves christians was not because they were 100% sure that they were all in agreement, but because they were babtized (the prophecy in Ezekiel 36:25 was fulfilled in christian babtism), they could be sure that they were in Christ. Why? Because it's Gods promise. Gal.3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. I'm not saying that doctrine doesn't matter. The question between fides qua anf fides quae has been haunting theologians for centuries- But i'd still rather trust Christ when it comes to salvation rather than my pastors "right" preaching.

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  34. Hi, I have a quick question. I thought the unpardonable sin was blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, not someone who is a pedophile. Can you please give your scripture? Also, if execution should be done, that is from The old Testemant, are you saying that is OK to only do"some" of the Laws? Thank you.

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    1. You're correct, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only unpardonable sin according to Jesus (Mark 3, Matt. 12). According to this logic all pedophiles (or gays, or whoever else they consider "reprobate") must recognize Jesus as Savior but deny him. Yet that can't be true, there are pedophiles that have never held a bible or heard the gospel. Not defending pedophiles or their enablers but this interpretation of scripture and saying someone is "reprobate" is clearly wrong. Pedophiles can be saved but redemption and salvation doesn't mean absolution from punishment.

      Keeping the victims in my prayers. No one deserves having those they trust the most exploit and degrade them.

      Delete
    2. Exactly what I was thinking. When I read I Corinthians 6:9-11 (9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.), I see that some in Paul's day committed these sins yet they repented of them.

      Delete
  35. If the reports were made in 2006 on black and white paper. ....and the show didn't start until 2008 ......WHY IN THE WORLD would they agree to become tv stars and think this wouldn't come up ??? ??????? Was this a conspiracy of the rulers of the darkness of this world to bring this family in the limelight only to bring this tragedy up years later to bring reproach upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, homeschooling, non birth control users????

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  36. Oh my goodness THANK YOU for this. I'm not sure I've ever commented before, and you and I disagree on a lot of things, but I'm so happy that you're publicly calling out this sin for what it is - abuse and incest.

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  37. I am weeping. Thank you so much. I was molested by my father for years and when I was 11 my mother, after not believing me until the doctor verified it for her, said I had to forgive him or else I would go to hell and I had to apologize to him when I was fourteen for my unforgiveness, bitterness, rebellion, etc. I left my house at 12:01 am on my 18th birthday and haven't been near church since. I still believe in God and my work-friend who tries to talk to me about church and the Bible all the time sent me your blog because I kept reading Christian after Christian minimizing this. You are the first and only Christian I've read who takes this seriously. Thank you so much.

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    Replies
    1. I am so sorry, and hope you can find peace and healing through God and His Word.

      Delete
  38. Good post, ma'am. Have a great evening.

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  39. Hello Steven Anderson, I have a question regarding someone I know who told me about a very grievous thing they did and I was wondering if you could give me your opinion. I will refer to this person as Bill. Bill claims to be saved because he is trusting in Jesus Christ who is God almighty who died for all our sins, was buried, and rose again from the dead. He claims that his works have nothing to do with getting him saved or keeping him saved and got saved by believing on the words of the KJB. He is an avide soulwinner and regularly gets people saved.

    However, he divulged to me, with much grief, a story of how before he was saved when he was 21 when he got really drunk and was falling asleep on a couch with the 7 year old daughter of friends of his whom he was very fond of. After she was asleep he said that reached down and grabbed here rear end once or twice and then realized it was wrong, stopped, and then passed out. Ever since that day he has been mortified by his actions and believes it has everything to do with how much pornography he was into at the time and also that he was very drunk. He has not told anyone else but me. He says he knows that he is saved and loves your preaching but whenever he listens to your preaching on the subject of pedophilia he is horrified and fears whether or not he is a reprobate. I don't know what to tell him or think. Can you please help me with this difficult situation? I will check back to see if you have replied to this post. Thanks for all you do and God bless!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Occasionally, we are presented with situations similar to this by people who are worried that they, too, might be a reprobate.

      Questions for self-examination to determine if someone is a reprobate:

      - Do I hate God?
      - Do I not want to retain God in my knowledge?

      If the answer to both of those questions is "no", you are not a reprobate.

      An unsaved person, drunk out of their mind, would be capable of committing all sorts of filthy acts, not unlikely "under the influence" - the influence of demons, that is.

      Hope this helps.

      Delete
    2. Whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life freelyMay 26, 2015 at 3:52 PM

      Amen to this - Although, God forbid someone would actually commit a filthy act like this under any circumstance, you speak the truth.

      Just to add to this - I don't even think someone who is reprobate would even care or be worried about it anyway, why would someone care about being rejected and never having forgiveness from the one true God that they themselves reject and choose to not believe in anyway? There's no mention of the Pharisees being concerned in the slightest after they blasphemed the Holy Ghost - They rejected Jesus as being the Son of God the whole time so why would they care if he says they have no forgiveness?

      But again THANK YOU for making yourself clear here Zsuzsanna!

      It takes a humble person to correct themselves or admit a mistake - though you obviously didn't mean to actually say that some sins aren't forgivable, excluding blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

      Delete
    3. Thank you this was most helpful!

      Delete
  40. Mrs Anderson, you couldn't be more correct. Furthermore, Josh needs to tell on the person or people who perpetrated against him. There has been effort made, reaching out to him, saying exactly that. Almost no 14 year old child sexually assaults or abuses without having first been a victim. And males are a tremendously overlooked and marginalized demographic when it comes to sexual assault disclosures... most of said disclosures also never happen until adulthood.

    Thank you for saying what you did about there being no Biblical requirement to forgiveness in your Q&A session. So many need to hear that... need that affirmation.

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  41. Oh you mentioned you did not read police reports. We did and they are awful. He did this TONS of times And for s long period of time, and the things he did were disgusting. People defend his age but that's absurd! It's not normal what did. They also blame his hormones. It's ludicrous. I'm saddened for the girls and other children who are going to have to deal with back lash of the media, etc. thinking back to the episodes where they portrayed Josh as pure makes me mad!!! Anyway... Can't get over this topic, it's so ridiculous!!!!

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  42. The most disturbing aspect of all of this is how long the molestation continued. This wasn't a one-of "mistake". This was 5 distinct girls (4 of whom are his sisters) molested over the course of at least one year. Those girls then had to continue to live with the person who did this.

    I know you said you haven't read the police report summary. It is easy for find online. You should read it. Those five girls are the victims. It is possible Josh was a victim himself but that doesn't excuse his behavior. His parents are ultimately responsible for what happened in their house and how they handled it. Taking him to have a "stern lecture" by a police officer who is now in jail for child pornography is NOT the way to handle it. He needed/ maybe still needs real counseling to find out if he was molested and to find out if he has/ will continue.

    I hope and pray that all of his victims have been able to recover from this but I'm not sure how possible that is given the way it was handled. I'm sure they are upset at having the whole world speculating and questioning what happened to whom. Again, that is their parents fault for putting them all on TV and opening the door to world wide acclaim and criticism.

    I have never seen a full episode of their show, just bits and pieces here and there. I hope that TLC and all other channels keep them off TV. They need to focus on their family and get anyone the help that needs it.

    K

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  43. Matthew 7:1 Judge Not Lest You be Judged. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'd hate to think that you, Zsu or anyone else is able to judge who is and who is not a Christian. Thank GOD that HE does that and He KNOWS all the details of everyone's life. Over my 50+ years on this life, I have learned that nobody knows someone's heart - truly - only God does. This does NOT mean that I condone sexual abuse, emotional abuse, mental abuse, etc. We are all imperfect human beings - sin is sin no matter how small or how large it is. And the "world" including Hollywood feeds into our greed and sinful selves!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm sorry, but even the world knows to some extent that ALL SIN IS NOT EQUAL. Pastor Anderson preached a sermon called "All sin is NOT equal". You should check it out.

      Delete
    2. Actually, it is possible to know another's heart. Jesus said it himself....

      Delete
  44. False prophet Ray Comfort is standing with Josh Duggar. I'm furious! I can't...

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  45. I don't disagree with much you have said about Josh and especially about his parents. However it is troubling that your solution to the situation is to execute Josh. I don't think putting Josh to death is the response Jesus would preach.

    SueKay

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  46. This is all so appalling. I'm so horrified. There are reports of Josh bypassing a firewall on their home computer and having access to internet pornography.

    I am so upset. This story has given me sleepless nights, distress, tears... I've never been so moved. My only help has been reading my Bible, getting edified in the Word, crying out to God, asking the Holy Spirit to comfort me etc.

    I am SCARED to find out more. God have mercy!

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  47. Thank you, ma'am, for writing this. The ill-conceived TLC program needs to be removed from the air immediately so that the victims have a chance to heal. If the producers had any decency, they'd also line up real, healing counseling for the Duggar girls and the younger children.

    One thing that jumped out at me from the police report was that, clearly, the victims had been heavily coached by their parents. The police started out with some ice-breaking questions...What's your favorite subject in school? Every single one of them said "Spelling." What's your least favorite subject? Every one of them said "Math." What's your favorite activity? Every single girl answered, "Playing pole ball with the family." Oh, and no problems with Josh; he's fine now, etc.

    It wouldn't surprise me if the first girl to speak out, and maybe all the victims, were severely punished for having "defrauded" their eldest brother. And the very fact that he entered a room full of sleeping girls to commit his crimes indicates that he thought he could abuse his sisters with complete impunity. Do I think Josh Duggar is truly sorry? Sure! Sorry he got caught. If he hadn't, he'd very likely be doing the same thing right now with the youngest children.

    All over the Internet I'm seeing "boys will be boys, all kids play doctor" poo-pooing of felonious sexual battery. What on earth? Thank you for speaking the truth and standing up for the victimized children in the dysfunctional Duggar compound.

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  48. Jim Bob (and Michelle) are definitions of hirelings.

    John 10:12-13
    But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

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  49. This article, it is well written and sums up what I have experienced when I went to an independent fundamental baptist church. http://fiddlrts.blogspot.ca/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html?m=1

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  50. This is silly. We (I included) should all just get off the computer right now and mind our own business, run our own households, and stop speculating on something we might not even know the true facts on.
    Here's a Bible verse to chew on.

    'And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some are already turned aside after Satan.' 1 Timothy 5:13-15.

    This blog serves as a platform for women to go house to house (from their computer chair) to be idle and busybodies. Let the man do the preaching, and have his online ministry. And the women should go and catch up on their ironing or something.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hey, do your own ironing! You're not my husband, I don't attend your church, and your "authority" in my life is zippity-dooty. If you don't approve of this forum, there's an easy solution: Don't read it.

      As for "something we might not even know the true facts on," that's very true, but only because it's unlikely that the Duggars included every detail in the police report. Consider that it IS very natural for women to have nurturing feelings toward troubled children. It should come as no surprise to you that Christian women would be concerned for Josh's victims and for ALL the exploited Duggar children. If you don't like it, you could always go change the oil in your wife's car, or ask her if there's anything around the house that needs fixing, or draw her a bubble bath so you BOTH can relax.

      Delete
  51. And all this talk about "Alice" from Free Jinger creeps me out. I think there's more to Free Jinger than meets the eye. It's a disinfo site for one thing.

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    Replies
    1. I've read the Alice posts, which date back to 2007. (For those not familiar, "Alice" was someone who said she knew the Duggar family, and who claimed back then that Josh had molested four of his younger sisters and a neighbor's child. She also said that an earlier "courtship" of Josh's was terminated by the girl's parents due to his behavior.) It turns out that Alice did indeed know what she was talking about. The only claim of hers that hasn't been verified by recent events is that Josh spent a lot of time surfing porn on the Internet. We have no way of knowing whether that's true, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

      Delete
  52. According to the current TLC schedule, they're planning to air yet another "19 Kids and Counting" MARATHON the first week of June. (Yes, even despite their earlier announcement about pulling all the episodes.) The executives at TLC are clearly licking their lips over this family tragedy, with their usual lack of concern for the children's well being. I have called and e-mailed them with my disgust over these plans, and would encourage all like-minded folks to do the same.

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    Replies
    1. Please don't do that. Let them stay on the air. What other Christian reality shows are out there? One bad apple doesn't ruin the whole tree. Also, Josh said he was sorry. How many times do we have to crucify him? Its not right. God bless the Duggar Family.

      Delete
    2. "Let them stay on the air". Are you kidding me? This entire family is messed up and the main reason they did this show is for MONEY. The majority of these "no birth control" family's live on government assistance. So your and my taxes are paying for them to spit out baby's. What Josh did there is no excuse for.

      Delete
    3. No, I do NOT think the Duggars' murky fishbowl should stay on the air. It's not about crucifying Josh, and it's not about whether or not all the "19 Kids" fans will miss the show. Josh's victims, and all the Duggar children, come first. They've been used and abused enough without being further exposed and exploited for the whole world to study their varied reactions to this tragedy. Please try to put your own entertainment desires aside for the good of those kids.

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  53. I'm not a Duggar fan, and I agree that the girls shouldn't have been forced to forgive their brother. They all should have received proper counselling, etc. However, I must question this quote of yours-"Even the world, which is happy to excuse most sins and licentious living, is still horrified by child abuse. No, forgiving a pedophile is not a great picture of what the gospel is all about. They have crossed a line where not even God is willing to forgive - why should we?...The unpardonable sin of sexual deviance is the fact that they burn with lust after the same gender, after animals, after (in this case) children."

    Huh- I always thought the unpardonable sin was in Mark 3:28-29 -- "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."

    So who is correct- the Bible or Zsuzsanna?

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  54. So your take is the the Duggars weren't conservative enough? Hahahahahaha. You're hysterical.

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  55. EXECUTED??? Seriously?

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  56. This post made the news!!! Lol! Google it!!! Haha!!!!

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  57. I read the police report. All 33 pages. And it's disturbing. He was 14/15 years old, old enough to discern, and was touching on his siblings, the youngest of the victims being only four at the time. FOUR. People are trying to veil this behavior by excusing it as hormones or curiosity. But at the young adult age of 14/15 to be touching the sex organs of a four year old is sickness. Either he's a victim himself (which wouldn't come as a surprise considering the state trooper/family friend he confessed to is serving a prison sentence for child pornography) or he's got an illness that hadn't been properly dealt with. When you allow the world into your home the devil will get a foothold. I can't tell you the Duggars aren't saved and I can't confirm Josh is a reprobate, but I can tell you that this family has made sacrifices of their faith for the world's rewards.

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    1. Wow are you kidding me?? I didnt really understand it went that far woah. i read bits and pieces from a few websites about this, i thought he was only 12 or 13 and touched one of his sisters that was close to his age... even thats still really disturbing but being 14 or 15 and going for a four year old? yeah well let me tell you why this isnt just explained by raging teenage hormones or curiosity because that is absolutely insane and a downright lie

      and please i dont mean to be graphic or crude with any of this but you need to understand.. ive been saved for at least 5 years but when i was 14 i cant say for sure, now i most definitely had raging hormones and very strong sexual desires. with zero doubt in my mind i can tell you when i was a young 14 year old guy who went through what they are claiming Josh went through that i never ever ever had any desires towards young kids or people younger than me.... you didnt even have to tell me it was wrong or it was sinful because it just wasnt even something that i ever considered or would even want, even if you told me i could get away with it or something it just never entered my mind even one time. i wouldnt have been able to think along those lines even if i was being forced to.

      and sorry for this maybe sounding a bit rude but you need to realize that i dont think its far fetched to call this guy a reprobate because i can tell you for a fact that even with the raging hormones and strong sexual attraction that i had, a girl at the very minimum had to have boobs for me to even look at her with any sort of attraction. remember im talking about when i was 14 here so other girls my age or older who were physically matured like this were absolutely the only girls i was attracted to.

      i was raised in a pretty strict home as well. it was put into my head from a young age that there can be no sex before marriage with no exceptions. at the time it felt like i was being restricted and held back but it still didnt change my attractions... thats crazy talk if you think being restricted or held back can make you turn to sick lusts. absolute rubbish!

      so yeah im sorry for being a bit rude but im telling you this guy is probably a reprobate. like pretty much everyone else here i cant say i know the guys heart and say he hates God and cant be saved but these explanations for his sick actions are just lies.

      like zsu said i think in a linked article. men are attracted to women and women are attracted to men. what is there to be attracted to with a child??? the only attraction for a man is for a physically developed woman, end of story. if you are attracted to anything else you seriously need to make sure your heart is right with God and start questioning whether or not you are really saved.. goodness why wouldnt a guy want a fully developed girl and nothing else..... its like saying i'd prefer to eat my own vomit instead of a nice steak because we all sin and make mistakes right??

      filthy scumbag. there is no normal reason for being attracted to an INNOCENT LITTLE KID josh you SICKO

      no wonder the Bible says reprobates are brute beasts who should be taken and destroyed... makes sense when you see this kind of gross behavior. im in disbelief.

      Delete
  58. http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/arizona-pastors-wife-condemns-liberal-duggars-sexual-deviants-should-be-executed/

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  59. Whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life freelyMay 26, 2015 at 3:29 PM

    Hi Zsuzsanna,

    I love your husband's preaching and I'm saved myself. I also agree with you that pedophiles, sexual deviants like sodomites are also reprobates.
    These sins are not only VERY major sins, but people that commit these sins should be executed like a murderer should be - As you mention as well.

    BUT

    The Word of God does not line up with what you've said here:

    "Even for a child of course such behavior is vile, perverted, and sinful, and they should and often do know better. But they are not always acting on their own lusts and desires, but in foolishness they are acting out what they themselves have been exposed to.
    The unpardonable sin of sexual deviance is the fact that they burn with lust after the same gender, after animals, after (in this case) children."

    Now, like I said, the Bible clearly shows in Romans 1 that a reprobate has been given over to vile affections, they've been given over to a reprobate mind. No doubt about it.

    However, the vile sins that are in question here, are NOT unforgivable sins as you've outright stated. Let me be clear and show from scripture that this is the truth.
    The way you've worded it is essentially putting the cart before the horse. You're basically saying that somebody commits one of these sins and that's what causes them to become reprobate.
    It's the other way around though. Somebody is GIVEN OVER to vile affections, GIVEN UP to a reprobate mind which causes them to indulge in these sick lusts.

    Mark 3
    28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven
    unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith
    soever they shall blaspheme:
    29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy
    Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of
    eternal damnation:

    1 John 3
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the
    law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

    The Word of God's own definition of sin is "the transgression of the law."

    You have the clear statement in Mark 3:28 that says that ALL sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men - Which by definition means that all transgressions of the law shall be forgiven unto the sons of men.

    The sins you've listed here like the act of sodomy, incest, sex with animals, etc, are ALL listed in the law. Therefore, these are sins that ARE forgivable. There's no way around this.
    Just like a murderer should 100% be put to death, someone who commits sodomy should 100% be put to death. But you wouldn't say someone who commits murder cannot be SAVED.

    When the Word of God says that Jesus tasted death for EVERY man (Hebrews 2:9), this means he died for all men. You can't say that the words "every" or "all change in meaning from one verse to another.
    If Jesus died for ALL, which we know is the truth, and then the Word of God says "All sins shall be forgiven..", then you cannot say that SOME sins are not forgivable, except blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

    This is the truth.

    Now again, I want to make my position on this subject clear - I DO firmly believe that a sodomite, or someone who has vile affections and unnatural lusts (Romans 1) has been given over to a reprobate mind - The Bible says it, I believe it.

    BUT the most important factor you need to realise is this. Technically speaking somebody who has committed one of these vile sins, no matter the age or circumstance, has NOT gone too far to be saved.

    This is the key - Someone who is TRULY, TRULY reprobate, will NEVER at any point have the will, intent, or desire to come to Christ to be saved.

    Revelation 22
    17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let
    him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is
    athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the
    water of life freely.

    "..whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely" - Therefore, if somebody DESIRES to take the water of life freely and is willing to receive the Gospel, is willing to believe on Christ and accept the free gift of salvation, then they CAN NOT be reprobate.

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  60. Whosoever WILL, let him take the water of life freelyMay 26, 2015 at 3:29 PM

    The proof of this being that God says whosoever will, LET HIM take the water of life freely. No question at all here - God has not rejected someone, and will not reject someone who is WILLING to receive the free gift.

    You imply (and I apologise if this is misunderstood on my part) that somebody could commit one of these sins and even if they WANTED to be saved, they couldn't be. This is false.

    When somebody becomes reprobate, they CANNOT BELIEVE (John 12:39) - They will NEVER have a will to be saved, they'll never WANT to be saved, because their eyes are blinded and their hearts are hardened so they CANNOT understand the Gospel (John 12:40).

    So in conclusion - If somebody has a will to be saved, if they can understand the Gospel and recognise the truth of salvation by grace through faith alone and undersand it's a free gift and they are WILLING to be saved, they can be.
    Regardless of whatever fleshly sin they have committed - If that person wants to receive the free gift of salvation, they can be saved. Someone who has their eyes blinded and hearts hardened will not be able to recognise the truth in order to have a WILL to come to Christ.
    Because someone who isn't even willing to come to Christ to be saved obviously doesn't SEE that the Gospel is the truth.

    Reprobate = Will never have a desire to be saved because they cannot recognise the truth, they cannot understand the truth in order to even come to Christ.
    A person who commits ANY sin (the transgression of ANY laws in the Old Testament) who WANTS to receive the free gift of salvation = NOT A REPROBATE.

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  61. Funny you should say that because Jim Bob Duggar is now trending on Facebook. It seems during his run for US Senate only two months after he discovered Josh had molested for the first time, he posted this online:

    "Rape and incest represent heinous crimes and as such should be treated as capital crimes."

    By his own words, he stated that incest deserved the death penalty. Now I'm not sure if Jim Bob didn't believe what Josh did was incest. Maybe he felt the rules didn't apply to a 14-year-old. Anyway, here's one link (there are several): http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3098065/Duggar-patriarch-Jim-Bob-called-rape-incest-punishable-DEATH-failed-2002-Senate-campaign-two-month-son-abused-minor.html?offset=0&max=100&jumpTo=comment-87166058

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  62. You're pretty quick to throw one of your own fundie wacko crew under the bus when they get caught doing disgusting stuff like this. Funny, that.

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    1. Why is that funny? I´d throw anyone under a bus for something like that, even my family members.

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  63. 1) There is no excuse for Josh's criminal behavior.
    2) The parental cover-up is (almost) as bad as the original crime. These "parents of the year" showed no interest or compassion for their victim daughters.
    3) I'm betting TLC had knowledge of this long before the story broke. I can't believe TLC would invest in and promote the show without doing thorough research. This means . . .
    4) TLC is both complicit and part of the cover-up.
    5) If the Duggar parents force the victims to publicly state they "forgive" Josh or are in anyway responsible for their brother's sick behavior I'll split in two with anger.
    6) I can't believe someone up-thread tried to blame this on Hillary Clinton!!! Only simpletons try to find a way to gore the same old ox no matter the subject matter.

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  64. In my job I am around a lot of teenagers and lately more and more identify themselves as gay or genderfuid? or some other abomination. How am I to know if they are reprobate or just mimicking what they have seen? It's almost cool to be a fag now days. Are there going to be many "gay" people not given over to a reprobate mind? Any input is welcome. Thanks!

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  65. I was molested, when I was a little girl, in much the same way as the Duggar girls. From his defenders, much has been made of the fact that, it was mostly fondling and "penetration" may not have occurred. It was "a long time ago" and "they have forgiven him." I was molested many years ago, and it still matters! The perpetrator did repent, and I forgave him; but it still matters. The counseling materials used by the Duggars' church explore all kinds of ways ,that the victim is partially responsible. Pretty typical of Independent Fundamental Churches and schools like Bob Jones University. Jim Berg's wife (of BJU) and Rand Hummel (of The Wilds) give similar counsel. The victim must also pray for forgiveness: for being partially responsible; for harboring resentment about it; and for being reluctant to completely forgive. It is the VICTIM, who is guilty of a "root of bitterness," for being sad and angry at what happened. My perpetrator, I believe, has genuinely repented. But I would not give him access to little girls, ever again. I must admit, that forgiveness is not a one-time thing for me. Besides the fact that the molestation drove me to despair, to running from God, and to a sinful lifestyle myself for a number of years, there are also feelings of horror and revulsion that well up within me, whenever other children are victimized. Then, I have to forgive all over again.The Duggar parents were foolish, reckless, and, I believe, criminal (in that they did not REALLY get meaningful help for the victims or REAL punishment and rehabilitation for the criminal.) I don't understand how anyone could molest a child. Normal fourteen-year-old boys fantasize about women, not children, and especially not sisters. There was and is more going on in that family; but I will not speculate at this time. Josh Duggar IS a pedophile; much like an alcoholic IS and alcoholic. Maybe he is a recovering pedophile, but that desire will always be there, lurking and waiting for an opportunity--while bathing his little girls, putting them to sleep, or while holding a sweet little girl on his lap. ACCOUNTABILITY AND VIGILANCE is needed. To treat this horrible crime, as if it were just stealing a piece of candy, is also criminal. Mike Huckabee should be ashamed of himself! People, who think that it is water over the damn, and that the show must go on--they should also be ashamed of themselves. Those beautiful girls are going to struggle. Maybe not today or tomorrow; but one day... To this day, I prefer to sleep alone in a locked room.

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  66. Duggar Interview with Megyn Kelly on the Kelly File FOX
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qudoA-yqwNs

    30:10 - Jill and Jessa preview to be aired on Friday (Jill seen crying!!! Awwwww so saddening!!!!)

    This is sad!

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    1. I think that they just might be crying, because they (wrongly) feel guilty about the fallout. Their brother has been exposed, and had to resign his position. Their parents count on the money they get from the tv show, and now the show might not continue. Who knows what they really feel inside? They have been trained to please their parents, and I think that they will say or do whatever it takes to get things back on track for their parents, and for their child-molesting brother.

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    2. I just hate to see anyone cry especially over a mess like this. I don't want to go into the psychoanalysis of why she's crying, but you can tell that she's done more crying that this since the story broke. I hurt for her and all the girls that were molested that have to go through this crazy mess in the media.

      I don't stand with Josh Duggar or his parents. They love filthy lucre.

      But if I stand with anyone, I stand with the victims. I can't blame them if they've been brainwashed by their parents and cultish ideals. I'll just pray they see the light. Needless to say they are still victims.

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  67. Despite careful covering over, the sin was made public. That means God did not allow it to remain hidden. Maybe, despite claims that the sin was properly dealt with, that the molester was repentant, and that the victims were cared for--just maybe God thought it wasn't dealt with properly. Maybe the victims and / or the abuser needs more attention?

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    1. You mean zionist Christ hating network execs couldn't wait to make an example of them and get the knives out. Maybe it was God, maybe it wasn't. This was definitely the plan from the inception.

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  68. I am not of the same belief system as most of you here, but I just want to say that it helped heal my heart to see so many Christians saying the same thing I am about this. The fans at the TLC and Duggar websites are rabid in their defense of the Duggars, and give the impression they alone have the ear and blessing of God while they defend this indefensible act. I have loved Jesus since I was first introduced as a child, but I, like so many others who love Christ, shy away from the label 'Christian' because of people like this and the sheer hypocrisy of that family who are held up to the nation as the epitome of 'Christian family values' while defrauding us all. I can't be a part of that.
    Thank you for allowing me to renew my faith in humanity. Many blessings to you all.

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  69. Pastor Steven Anderson and Zsuzsanna Please Listen to Michael Hoggard The Duggar Family And God's Unlimited Mercy!! Please Keep an Open Mind!! God Bless!!

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  70. Hi Zsuzsanna, what is your email address to get in touch with you? Thank you!

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