Sunday, May 20, 2012

AhaHaHaHa! Parenting

Bad parenting is nothing new. Humanistic philosophies that go against the Bible are as old as time itself. So what appears to be a new trend by the name of "attachment parenting" (AP) is nothing but horrible parenting by a new, cute name.

In fact, the name implies that these parents are going above and beyond, when in truth they are conducting a dangerous social experiment on their own children, and those of others. An experiment that is sure to fail, because it goes 100% against the Bible.

You know you have fallen for the attachment parenting style if you can say any of the following, and mean it:



“If you have a question about parenting your child, try asking your child first!” (source)

"I’m sorry, I can’t let you throw that remote at his head because he might get hurt." (source) (BTW, the person saying this is lying - unless she really is sorry that her child can't throw a remote at the other child.)

"Give [the child] what she wants in her mind using wish fulfillment." (source)

"[Your son] is letting you know that his world feels so fragile that if you don’t do exactly what he wants, everything will fall apart." (source).

"The fact that [your son] has a meltdown means that he has a lot of feelings stored up that he needs help to let out. [...] Just say "I'm sorry we need the lights on in the living room, Sweetie..." and when he begins to cry, stay with him and love him through his meltdown." (source

- "The more control toddlers [...] have over their own lives, the less they need to be defiant." (source) (In other words, your children will obey you much more, if you only ever tell them to do what they want to do.)



The list could go on. If you take a look at the Q&A section of an apparently popular AP blog, Aha! Parenting, you may find yourself (as I did) quickly falling into a rabbit-hole of parenting insanity. Every single post on there is sheer madness to those of us not used to dealing with angry, hateful, violent, defiant children. I pity the mothers who have to endure living with such offspring. Their sorrows will only increase as their children grow older.


The basic idea of attachment parenting is this: Love your child. Be a friend to him/her. In turn, they will love you, trust you, and be your friend, which will result in them doing as you say, or learning to make their own, sensible decisions. Punishing the child, or even allowing their actions to bring about certain consequences, are damaging to this process of "attachment", and are therefore considered wrong.

The danger in this idea lies in the fact that it is halfway true. Of course, we need to love and nurture our children. Of course, we cannot only interact with them in the course of punishing or disciplining them. Of course, we cannot answer "No, not now" every time they ask to play with us. I am all for winning our children's hearts, and tying close bonds.

My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.
(Proverbs 23:26)

But this nurturing needs to be balanced with a clear understanding of who is in charge (the parents), that obedience on the part of the children is non-negotiable, and that there are negative consequences for disobedience.

Should it have to be like that? No, of course not! In a perfect world of sinless creatures, we would all do the right thing because we want to. But we are all sinners. We go to work to pay the bills, not because it is our dream job, every hour of every day. We do the dishes, laundry, and housecleaning to keep conditions sanitary, not because cleaning is our hobby. Doing right, and refraining from doing wrong, do not come natural to any of us - we learn to act that way because it is right, not because it is enjoyable or fun. Of course, as we grow older and more mature, this will become easier and more enjoyable, but we are talking about immature children here.

Here, in no particular order, are the dangerous consequences of what is called "attachment parenting":

- Your child will learn to only do things they find enjoyable. If you have to make funny faces at your 5-year old, or read to him in order to get him to brush his teeth, you are teaching him never to do anything that is not entertaining or enjoyable. This is absolutely not true of real life.

- Your child will be defiant and disobedient. There is no such thing as "no consequences". Either Junior does as he is told, or he doesn't. When he doesn't, he either gets punished, or gets his way (a reward). There is no neutral ground. If you don't want your child to be rewarded for disobedience by getting his way, don't let him disobey and get his way. Duh!

- Your child will become angry, hateful, and violent. All children need boundaries to feel safe. They will keep pushing and pushing until they find a boundary, and if they don't find one, they become angry and violent. The kids that get by with doing the most wrong are invariably the ones with a continual frown, a spiteful look, and prone to hurting others.

- Your child will be a danger to himself and others. Whether it is letting himself out of the house and wandering the streets, hitting/biting siblings and friends, or burning the house down - someone is bound to get hurt. Children have parents to tell them what to do, in order that those children are safe and out of harm's way. If they could parent themselves, they would not depend on parents for a quarter of their life.

- You will face shame, ridicule, and heartache as the parent. Since we are all raising little sinners, this cannot be entirely avoided and eliminated. But if you sow to the wind, expect the reap the whirlwind. Children are described in the Bible again and again as a source of joy. If you are only ever happy with your child when he/she is asleep, something is majorly wrong with your parenting.
- You will not want a large family. Not only will you lack any enjoyment in being a parent, but it would not even be practical or feasible when you are catering to self-entitled monsters day in, day out, around the clock.
- You will still be breastfeeding your teenage son. Because that's what all good AP moms do. You will also look like an idiot on national TV when your child won't let you take your attention off him for a second to have a conversation with other adults.
One could easily just laugh and dismiss the parental insanity called "attachment parenting" - if it were not for the sad fact that all of us will suffer when these children grow into voting adults. Look no further for the next crop of lazy jerks who want to live off welfare because having a job isn't "fun" (at best), and axe murderers (at the worst.) 

If I were to give just one piece of parenting advice to new parents, it is this:

WIN EVERY BATTLE

Mind you, I did not say "Pick every battle". If one of our children wants to leave the house in costume, or eat nothing but fruit for breakfast, or spend the afternoon covering an entire ream of paper in drawings - they can. It's not an issue I feel the need to legislate over. Also, if for some reason I don't have the time or resources at the moment to make sure the child will obey, I don't bother getting in a battle with them to begin with. It is better not to bring an issue to a head, than to bring it to a head and let them win.

But once I tell them what to do, that is law as far as they are concerned.

Did I tell them to come, or to go to bed, or to brush their teeth, or to sit still in church? Then I expect them to do it. I they don't (and yes, that will happen, which is why we have many years to train and teach our children), there WILL be consequences, and I will see the battle through until I win.

And guess what? When a child knows they lose every battle, every time - there are much fewer battles! One common example is telling a young, walking child "come here". Any child that is old enough to understand this command must be taught to obey it, for their own safety first and foremost. It is also a great lesson in practicing obedience.
Children that are allowed to disobey this simple command, very quickly learn never to obey it. They will stand and laugh at the parent, maybe pretend to take a step toward them, only to run the other direction in open defiance.

If, however, a child is taught right from the beginning that coming when called is not optional, they will come when called. It is not rocket science. In turn, this will help teach them to obey their parents in other areas. Ultimately, the reason behind learning to obey parents, is that it will lead to adults who have a desire to obey their heavenly father, God. Will we ever be perfect - no, of course not, at least not in the flesh, and neither will our children. But we can all have a heart that wants to do right, all the time, because we have been so taught. 
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
(Ephesians 4:21-24)
Ironically, parenting the Bible way will lead to children that are very attached and loving to their parents. Our children are all incredibly kind, gentle, and affectionate toward us parents. They are a source of joy and blessing to us, and ever more so as they grow older. I sincerely pity mothers who make nothing but sacrifices for their child, who try to graciously deal with tantrums, violence, anger, and defiance daily - but not the Bible way - only to have their children grow into criminals who hate them.

As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.
(Psalm 18:30)

67 comments:

  1. You nailed it, Amen! Great post. I hate to think about what kind of generation my children will end up in looking at the present occupy wallstreet crowd. It's only going to get worst as more people raise children with no self control and limits with serious entitlement issues.

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  2. This is some of the best parenting advice I have ever read. Parents who allow their children to rule their lives have miserable children that no one wants to be around.

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  3. Nicely put, I couldn't agree more.

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  4. This new wave of childraising turns my stomach inside out. You don't know thse funny part though. Attachment parenters crying about their willful toddlers humiliating them in public, throwing hissy, screaming fits, them regretting HAVING THEM HAD at all. The spoilt kids' behaviour brings out the darkest, meanest subhuman feelings possible. I have seen ugly, mean, spoilt 1.5year olds kicking their mothera, dropping f bombs, yelling at others and - thank heavens i have seen complete strangers intfere, putting the child in it's place along with it's totlly stupid, weak and disfunctional mother. Stupid child spoilers remember one thing.... If you don't teach the kid boundaries, somewhere somehow others will and the kid might just come home one day without a head. Others are not your kid's slaves. Btw Zsuzsanna this is just one of the reason why your non-fanbase would like to see you stop blogging, you have 6 happy and well behaved children - not to mention healthy too - it's painful for them to see their liberal non-parenting takiang it's toll on their lives. Thanks for the post!

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  5. Perhaps you should wait till your kids are grown to give parenting advice, or to make predictions about other parenting styles. It is pretty easy to parent pre-adolescents.

    And if you punish a child because he has not brushed his teeth, aren't you teaching him that he should brush his teeth only to avoid punishment? And that if a parent isn't there, there is no motivation to brush his teeth? It sounds a lot like attachment parenting, only there is a punishment instead of a reward.

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  6. I have to disagree with you here. I am not a parent but I am a teacher, and the children at my school who are parented the way you advocate are the ones who take no initiative, are intolerant of others' differences, and are more violent than the other children. The only child to ever leave our toddler community without becoming potty trained was the also the only one who was spanked (at home) for having accidents.
    Have you read anything by Alfie Kohn? His books are based on scientific research and they advocate doing away with both rewards and punishments.
    AP doesn't mean not setting boundaries, it means helping alleviate the root cause of inappropriate behaviors rather than "treating the symptoms".

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  7. Co-sleeping and extended breastfeeding are big parts of attachment parenting. And many AP avoid white sugar, HFCS, and eat only organic.

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  8. You would have died if you had been at the party I was at yesterday. I literally watched a father plead, beg, and reason with his six year old for one hour to get him out of the pool. I pulled a chair up and watched for the first 30 minutes. After that, I actually had to get up and walk away because I was ready to pull the gosh darn brat out of the pool by his arm, then drag him down the street.

    "We have to leave. Please. PLEASE. Please. Will you please get out of the pool?"

    That went on for an ENTIRE HOUR. I have never seen anything like it. I was embarrassed for the father. It was like he was afraid of his own kid.

    The funny thing is that I just posted on FB today that I blame Dr. Sears for that guy being afraid of his own child. God forbid the child make a scene or have to do something he doesn't want to.

    Newsflash!!!! It was a scene!!!! A scene where the father looked like a FOOL!

    Do you know how I leave somewhere? I say, "We're leaving! Get your stuff!!!", then I walk away and the children follow me, lest they get left behind. It's THAT EASY.

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  9. Anonymous said...

    Perhaps you should wait till your kids are grown to give parenting advice, or to make predictions about other parenting styles. It is pretty easy to parent pre-adolescents.

    And if you punish a child because he has not brushed his teeth, aren't you teaching him that he should brush his teeth only to avoid punishment? And that if a parent isn't there, there is no motivation to brush his teeth? It sounds a lot like attachment parenting, only there is a punishment instead of a reward.

    May 20, 2012 8:31 PM
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    I am not advocating any methods I came up with since our oldest was born 10 years ago. I am advocating the Bible's teaching on this subject, which is as old as time itself, and has been successfully used for hundreds, yea thousands of years, much to the betterment of society. Reading the AP blogs, it sure seems they are having major troubles with their "pre-adolescents". If your child is acting WORSE the older they get, you are definitely doing something wrong.

    And as far as "It sounds a lot like attachment parenting, only there is a punishment instead of a reward." - uh, yes. It's like stealing, but getting caught instead of ending up with more money. THAT'S THE POINT, EXACTLY.

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  10. Megan,

    non-parents and teachers are always the parenting experts.

    Nowhere have I ever, or would I, advocate punishing a child for having a potty accident. So why you throw that in there as the example is beyond me. Nor should I be compared to people who drop their kids off in daycare/school, as they clearly don't care about their children as much as I do.

    And no, many parents who spank are sorely lacking on the "nurture" side, or only spank in anger as a last resort. I am neither for all positive, nor for all negative.

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  11. Surely a child who is polite, affectionate where appropriate, sociable and generous with a regard for rules, authority and manners is more important than the way they are taught to behave like that? It may not work for you, but why dismiss it entirely for anyone else other than yourself? I know plenty of AP raised children who are among the sweetest I know, friendly, funny, creative, responsible and respectful. I'm sorry you only seem to have seen the negative extreme of AP.

    Teaching children about choice, negotiating and compromise does not necessarily undermine a parent. Just today my son asked for a biscuit and I said no, having already had a treat, but offered an Apple or banana instead. He thought about it, chose an apple and moved on. No battles, no tears, no need to lay down the law, but my position as a parent remained and we both came out successful. Surely a child who grows up capable of rational independent thought, choice making and negotiational skills will be a valuable member of the future workforce rather than one who requires black and white rules and constant authority to follow?

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  12. Miranda,

    in your example of the cookie: I agree. I'm not saying "beat the child for asking for a cookie". Like you, I would have said "no", or maybe even just "not today, because you already had one", and then probably offered a better alternative instead. There is nothing wrong with being civil and reasonable.

    The question is how to respond when the child then throws a temper tantrum and demands their way. THAT needs to be punished, not kowtowed to, or deflected/distracted.

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  13. Michelle,

    You bring up a good point - parents pleading with their children. Someone is always in charge, and if it's not the parents, then it is the children.

    Clearly, you are an involved parent, and love your kids more than to allow them to humiliate themselves and/or you in public. They will grow up and thank you for it.

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  14. Alfie Kohn is a moron. I have never read such ridiculous drivel in all my life. Our entire society is based on rewards and punishments. If you want to parent like Alfie Kohn, move to an island and start a commune. Your kid will still likely become a serial killer, so watch your back.

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  15. Michele,

    sorry for habitually misspelling your name. Your comments always make my day! Thanks for stopping by :)

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  16. Zsuzsanna, I am really pleased that you have got over your anti-IVF thing. Michele's triplets are via IVF - see, she is not a monster.

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  17. I agree with your post.

    However I must say that the way you write your posts makes you appear to be very self righteous and ignorant. I feel that some of what you have to say would be far more convincing if you weren't so brash in your approach.

    I too have strong beliefs in the way I am raising my growing family and the way I view the world but I am always willing to discuss things with my brothers and sisters in Christ and I don't feel lowering myself to name calling and labelling entire cultures as "stupid" is the best way to go about changing peoples minds.

    I do hope you take this in the spirit in which it is given and that is simply to help you use this wonderful tool to show people how wonderful living a Christian life can be without people being turned off.

    God Bless

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  18. I am a Bible-believing Christian mother. I also do all of the things that would make me a "good" AP mom - bed-sharing, extended breastfeeding, baby-led weaning, baby wearing, etc. I do, however, discipline my children.

    I think that there are some wonderful aspects of the AP philosophy of parenting that are definitely Biblical. There is nothing wrong with responding to your infant's cues and parenting them in a way that feels natural to your mothering instincts.

    I think that you are giving a very generic overview of this philosophy. You can find bad in just about any parenting "philosophy". I could look into some "Bible-based" parenting philosophies that some very prominent Christians subscribe to that I feel are evil and abusive to children. But I am smart enough to know that those parents don't represent all Christian parents who train up their children according to the way they feel God asks them to.

    All of this is very surprising to me coming from someone like you. On the outside you would strike me as an attachment parent. The fact that you practice extended breastfeeding, bed-sharing, and even homeschooling (which means you understand the value of keeping your children near their mother).

    And I find that your list just isn't true for my family. I have three children age four and under and still plan to have more children, so AP parenting isn't keeping me from wanting to have more (even while currently nursing a 14 month old that sleeps with me). My children are extremely well behaved. It's amazing what an effective discipline tool love can be.

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  19. Well, I do have 4 grown children ~ I can testify that biblical principles work. (Not that anyone needs me to verify what the Word teaches.) There are many instances that could be mentioned - but two that recently occurred and come immediately to mind.

    1. Our grown, still single 28 yo son has been self-supporting for a number of years. A situation recently came up in which he really didn't want to to something a bit hard (though nothing bad) - his dad discussed it with him and said - I don't ask you to just do as I say much any more - but I am telling you that you need to do this like I say. He did. Why? Because he trusts us to look out for his best interests, even when it is hard.

    2. Our daughter is in college. Hugging as a greeting seems to be very popular these days - we find it to be a bad idea for members of the opposite sex to routinely embrace each other in a casual greeting. So our daughter has been told (after discussion clearly explaining why)that we do not want her to do this and we also gave her ways to handle a guy who seemed to think it was his due to just expect a hug. After a student recital two young men attempted to greet her with a hug assuming this would be routine. She put her arm up to stop their advance and said she did not hug guy friends. They did not take that well - and asked her why. She said her parents told her she wasn't allowed as it was inappropriate. They still did not take her refusal seriously. They asked her do you always do what your parents say? She said yes, she did. That still did not deter them. They proceeded to try to shame her by saying that her parents were far away and why should she listen to them when she was there on her own. At that point she was pretty irritated with them - and shocked that they would even think such a thing. I think she shamed them for their disrespect for their parents and they went off a bit incredulous. Of course my daughter told me all about the encounter within a day or two. She is still upset that they were so disrespectful both to her and to their parents.

    An example of this false attachment parenting in Scripture is given in the life of Sampson. His parents catered to his selfish and sensual whims. There is nothing new under the son - and God has exposed every false philosophy and its tragic results.
    Blessings,
    Patti

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  20. LOVE THE POST!!!

    And the whole "brushing the teeth" argument....I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) Zsuzsanna's point in that is NOT to "punish" if teeth aren't brushed, but rather if the parent tells the child to do something, you DO IT. Period! Whether it's brushing teeth or whatever. I totally agree!

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  21. Anonymous said...
    Zsuzsanna, I am really pleased that you have got over your anti-IVF thing. Michele's triplets are via IVF - see, she is not a monster.

    May 21, 2012 12:16 AM

    I am NOT over "my anti IVF thing". It is murder, plain and simple. That being said, there are many Christians in the Bible who committed murder. It's not something to write people off over for life.

    The woman I dubbed the "IVF monster" gloated about how many babies had died in her countless attempts, then bemoaned 2 she chose to allow to live (while intentionally killing their 2 siblings in the same pregnancy), and then went on to profane her two living children and her husband. She IS a freak. Michele clearly loves her children. I can both say that something is wrong and evil, and yet get along with those who have made mistakes in that area.

    ~~~~~

    Anonymous said...
    I agree with your post.

    However I must say that the way you write your posts makes you appear to be very self righteous and ignorant. I feel that some of what you have to say would be far more convincing if you weren't so brash in your approach.

    I too have strong beliefs in the way I am raising my growing family and the way I view the world but I am always willing to discuss things with my brothers and sisters in Christ and I don't feel lowering myself to name calling and labelling entire cultures as "stupid" is the best way to go about changing peoples minds.

    I do hope you take this in the spirit in which it is given and that is simply to help you use this wonderful tool to show people how wonderful living a Christian life can be without people being turned off.

    God Bless

    May 21, 2012 3:14 AM


    Do you realize you used the word "I" nine times in your five sentences???? In a comment accusing me of begin "self-righteous" and "brash"?


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Scottish Twins,

    If you spank your children, you are NOT considered an AP parent. As my post defined, AP is against ANY punishment (even time-outs, which I agree are stupid and worthless).

    Cosleeping, extended breastfeeding, etc. are not proprietary to AP. They have been used for thousands of years by parents the world over. But NOT in lieu of disciplining those same children. I'm sure AP parents also feed and clothe their children - that doesn't make feeding and clothing an AP thing.

    When I use the term "attachment parenting", I mean what our modern culture means by that - the child is in charge, with no punishment or negative consequences ever. If there is a popular AP advocate or blog out there that ALSO promotes strict biblical discipline in the form of corporal punishment, I will stop saying that AP is categorically wrong.

    ~~~~~

    fourkid,

    Good for you and your kids! Thanks for sharing. And great example of this foolish parenting in the Bible!

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  22. I think you are failing to recognize that AP is a general term for a wide range of practices. You've made it black and white, IMO.

    I do spank my children sometimes. But I also have many friends that have never spanked their children and have raised lovely, well-behaved children. Spanking isn't what makes someone a good, Godly parent (I know some pretty horrible parents that use corporal punishment), it's the time spent teaching proper behavior that does. To discipline is to disciple - to teach, not to punish. Sometimes punishments are necessary, but that punishment doesn't have to be corporal punishment to be effective.

    I do not think that the majority of AP moms are not disciplining their children AT ALL, just like I don't believe the majority of Christiam mothers using corporal punishment are beating their toddlers with sticks to get them to sit still for long periods of time. A few bad apples can paint a bad picture of just about anything.

    I think there is validity to the AP approach of "discipline", which in the case of toothbrushing would be to make it fun for the child so that they want to do it, instead of punishing them for not doing it. I feel like that creates a child that will cheerfully do necessary things instead of simply doing them out of fear. That's my goal as a Christian mother - to create a cheerful servant of Christ, not one that is simply going through the motions out of fear. That idea is central to everything I do as a mother.

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  23. I completely agree that AP certainly seems like a disaster waiting to happen, and would consider myself a horrible parent if I let my son do anything he pleased and did not teach him that wrong choices have negative consequences, just like REAL LIFE. Isnt the entire point of being a parent to teach your children to thrive and succeed on their own in the real world? I do want to say however, in regards to one of your comments, that taking my child to his (Small, Private, half day) preschool (which feeds into the primary school) means that I don't care about him as much as you care about your children. We sacrifice to keep him in an excellent school because we firmly believe that it is what is best for him academically, where he will be encourage by G-dly teachers and taught the Bible at school as well as home. It would be much easier and less expensive to keep him at home, but we send him there, and will through High School (unless we cannot afford it anymore, at which point I would rather homeschool than put him in public school). We are doing this BECAUSE we love him and want him to have every advantage. It is obvious how much you love your children, please do not assume that because we believe a different course of education is what is best for him, that we don't love our child just as much. -Rivkah H.

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  24. Since your kids aren't grown, I don't think you can claim that your answers are all correct. You may be going horribly wrong (though I hope not), it's too soon to tell.

    The fact that you follow Biblical methods doesn't mean you are following them correctly.

    I'd wait. Let your kids grow up . Be humble and hope for the best. Thing are so easy before adolescence--kids tend to adore and mimic their parents during this period, convincing parents that they have done "everything right." Wait. Things change in adolescence, even for homeschooled, Biblically reared kids.

    Don't shout on the rooftops how well you've done when your job is only half over.

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  25. For years I dreaded adolescence with my oldest girls. We got to 11, things were fine. Then we arrived at 12 and I thought, well now things should start getting hairy, nope still no big deal. Finally we arrived at 13, the horrible age I had been warned about by people the world over. haha.

    Let me tell you about my 13 1/2 year old daugthers. They are wonderful, sweet, caring, and *gasp* they have clean rooms. They adore their parents, hold our hands in public, cuddle with us and tell us how much they love us. I was sick last week for a few days and my teenagers helped take care of the little kids, kept the house in tolerable order and cooked meals. They did all of this without being asked. Of course they're not perfect, who is, but I'm still waiting for those demon children to suddenly rear their ugly heads as I was told they would. I really don't think it's going to happen.

    We have seen first hand with a girl raised the opposite of our girls, how the worlds way just doesn't work. She has grown up with my girls since they were very small children. We were around her family a lot when they were a bit younger, we vacationed with them and everything. Her parents are very liberal. She was allowed to voice her opinion to adults, never spanked, indulged and given those long reasoning talks when she did something wrong, and was given the specifics of sex when she was seven. This now 14-year-old child, is always depressed, talks about suicide, writes about how she hates her parents on-line, she's obsessed with sex, thinks she's a lesbian and is very very dark. We don't hang out with them anymore. The world can keep their parenting ideas. I'll take God's.

    It would appear non-spanking parents think we just whack our kids at the drop of a hat, for every offence, all day long. This is just not so. Parents who raise children Biblically are not yelling and smacking their kids all day long. Well some might, but that is not Biblical, that is something else.

    I don't see why someone would have a problem with teaching a child to do something to avoid a negative consequence. Don't we all make our choices based on avoiding the negative outcome? Why is teaching them that bad choices equals something painful, when that is what "real life" will show them? Real life will be much worse than swats to the butt by a loving parent.

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  26. Before this post, I didn't know much about attachment parenting beyond baby-hood. I was actually surprised that you were against the method of parenting, because many of the techniques for infants sound similar to what you do--baby wearing, co-sleeping, breastfeeding, etc. Would you say that you agree with the parenting style for infants, but as they grow older and develop, that a different approach is needed?

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  27. I think you are confusing AP with TCS (taking children seriously). Please take a look at something like gentlechristianmothers.com, which believes in parental authority and discipline, while still supporting AP and not believing in punishment. Lack of punishment does not mean lack of consequences.

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  28. Two more things: children who are not encouraged to self-wean at a younger age typically self-wean between 2.5 and 7. So your argument that AP parents will wind up nursing their teenage sons is a little useless there.

    Secondly, Dr. Sears, the man who coined the term "attachment parenting," describes the 7 B's of attachment parenting: birth bonding, breastfeeding, babywearing, bedding close to baby, belief in your baby's cries, beware of baby trainers, and balance. Why do you focus on the discipline aspect of this, when that isn't even part of it?

    Also - have you ever looked into the original Hebrew? If you do, you will find that there is no commandment to beat our children.

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  29. Do you realize you used the word "I" nine times in your five sentences???? In a comment accusing me of begin "self-righteous" and "brash"?

    I apologise if you took that the wrong way. I used the word "I" nine times as it was my opinion no one elses. I wasnt going to say we or everyone as that was the point of my comment what I think is not necessarily what everyone else thinks.

    I pray that you will open your heart to people who are trying to offer a different perspective to you. I know you live your world in black and white I only pray your children never stray off the path into the world of grey and if they do you will have the compassion and understanding to see your way is not the only way.

    God Bless

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  30. Jesus, Mary and the disciples were not raised according to Biblical principals, because there was no Bible at the time.

    Many, many men and women, throughout the centuries, were raised without Biblical principles, because there was no Bible.

    It is possible to do the same today.

    Kimmie, 13 isn't even the start of adolescence. Wait a few years before congratulating yourself, and remember it is not Christlike to criticize your old-time family friends in a public forum like this one.

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  31. Actually they were raised according to Biblical principles, and strictly so because they were religeous Jews. There was no "new testament", but the "old testament", the Hebrew Tenach, had been around for over 2,000 years by that point. Just saying.
    -Rivkah H

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  32. I agree with most of your post and I definitely have never believed in that style of parrenting.

    I also find the source of this post rather ironic because you practice many things typically attributed to the AP community.

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  33. Dear Zsuzsanna, most of these liberal childraisers don't give a hoot about the kind of adult they'll release into society. And they don't care if the kids turn out to be lazy trashbags on welfare for no other reason but having a job is a burden. Liberal parents are failures who have multiplied and they are raising failures for the fiture so that iur hardworking offsprings can foot their food stamps and welfare while they hang around at home not cleaning, having the kids off to school and doing nothing but posting garbage online in the dirty house. They just reach out ans snatch foodstamps so that they can feed their brood for free while others sweat blood to make ends meet.they pretend that work ethics has nothing to do with their financial situation and live off of others. Liberalism is the only way they can excuse their lazy, non caring, spongy, snatchy, selfish ways. God bless your day. Posts like these help us, reasonable people make it harder on them.

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  34. I agree about winning every battle with your kids, and I think it's possible to do this without confrontation or shaming them 99% of the time. Parents are older, smarter (experience not IQ) and able to see through every ploy. When you are in tune with your child, you know what they need and don't need to use force to have good behavior from them.

    I agree with the previous commenters that the description of the way you parent fits perfectly with what Dr. Sears advocates in The Baby Book. Whether you call it that or not, you are attachment parenting.

    Elise

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  35. Proof read your own post before insulting other comments. Your wrote " I they don't" Of course now you will probably fix it and not post this comments. I agree with this post, but you do come off as such a hateful and mean person. It's hard for most people to picture you as a loving parent. I think you like the attention you get from being this way though. I cook from scratch, can make my own ice cream and butter ect. I parent according to the Bible, and can't stand this AP. I don't have to try and prove myself or brag on myself to feel good.

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  36. My children are now adults. They have graduated from university and are working in their chosen careers. One is a film editor and one is a cruise ship captain. Tey were raised in a Christian home, granted a liberal left-wing Christian home in Berkeley, CA. We were their parents, not their BFF. We had rules, policies, and procedures in our home that were made to be followed. I did extended nursing, and it was not an issue in the public domain, it was a decision we made all on our own. We did the family bed--our children did have their own bedrooms and they moved into their rooms at night when they decided to, and again thsi was a decision we, as parents, made for our family. I think these two things are my only connection to AP.

    I am not a fan of Attachment Parenting. I feel it will, in the end, be harmful for the children. These AP children are going to grow up thinking the world owes them everything immediately--talk about an instant gratification nightmare.

    I'm not sure where I am going here--I think I am rambling :)

    Great post, as I find all your posts to be. it would be delightful to live close to you as I would enjoy talking with you as we canned fruits and made jam for our shelves.

    Blessings, Mrs. Mari

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  37. I think we actually agree on this subject. Attachment parents are setting their children up for heartache and failure when they get into the real world!

    I do have to disagree on one comment you made. Just because my children went to daycare, because I had no choice but to work, does not mean I love them less than you do yours. I loved them enough to do the right thing and not take handouts but to earn a living to help support them. Beside loving the Lord, the best thing a parent can teach a child is to take care of themself and not expect a handout from others. Not every mother can afford to stay home.

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  38. What do you propose single mothers do? They must work or go on welfare.

    Does your church support its single moms so they don't have to work or go on welfare?

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  39. I think it is certainly possible to be an attachment parent without going to the extreme of never disciplining your children. We follow most of the AP guidelines with our children when they are young, and although we don't spank (it has happened a couple of times, but it's not our preferred method of discipline) we certainly DO discipline our children and there are consequences when they don't do as they are told.

    The example given above of the parent pleading with their child for an hour to leave the pool just makes me sad. There are certain things that are up for negotiation and certain things that are not, and that example definitely falls into the category that is not!! I agree with a previous poster. You say you're leaving, maybe give a 5 minute warning so the child has time to finish up activities, and then you simply start walking. The kid will follow!

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  40. Anonymous said...
    What do you propose single mothers do? They must work or go on welfare.

    Does your church support its single moms so they don't have to work or go on welfare?

    May 22, 2012 3:39 PM


    Assuming that unlike Mary, these single moms did not conceive miraculously while living in celibacy, I say they should not be a single mother to begin with. As in, don't have sex outside marriage, and you cannot end up a single mother.

    If you chose to disobey God's clear command on this, you may (through your own fault) put yourself in a situation where no matter which solution you chose (work a job that requires you to relinquish your kids to the care of others, or live off welfare), you will be doing wrong. That's not God's fault.

    The Bible makes it clear that widows are supposed to be supported by their sons, nephews, or other male relatives. This doesn't sit well in our world of mini-families, where many have no extended family to support them. Widows are also supposed to remarry if they are under the age of 60, in which case their future husband will provide for them.

    Widows above that age, if they have no relatives to care for them, if they have only been married once before, if they have brought up children, and if they are faithful Christians, are supposed to be provided for by the church - and those only. Not every baby mamma that couldn't keep her clothes on.

    Maybe young people would stop sleeping around like animals if they had to worry about providing their illegitimate offspring with food and clothes.

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  41. In other words, it sounds like your church does nothing to help single mothers or their children (who, presumably, must suffer for their mother's sins)

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  42. What about a woman with young children whose husband simply leaves her and refuses to support the children? Biblically she can't remarry.
    What else can she do but leave her children in daycare and work to support them?

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  43. Single mothers should think twice before just getting laid for fun and being dropped like it always happens. It is not Zsuszannas or her churches job to make up for irrisponsible and disposable people's mistakes! You make a mistake, go pay for it. This is exactly what liberals do, live carelessly then reach out for other people's money. NO!

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  44. Anonymous said...

    What about a woman with young children whose husband simply leaves her and refuses to support the children? Biblically she can't remarry.
    What else can she do but leave her children in daycare and work to support them?

    May 23, 2012 1:35 AM


    Indeed, in this case, a woman will most likely be forced to work. Which is nothing but proof that the sins of the parents affect the children.

    However, choosing a spouse carefully can certainly minimize the risk of ending up with a deadbeat. People are who they are. Most women just go hook, line, and sinker for any loser they think they can reform and be a mommy to.

    Statistically, your chances of your spouse divorcing you are much greater if you sleep together before marriage. I guess the same guy that is willing to use you then, will also discard you selfishly without concern for yourself or the children. So there's one great way to weed out a lot of freaks - be a virgin until you marry, and make sure you marry someone with the same convictions. It will make for a much smoother marriage.

    Also, there are ways to make money from home, that would not require you to leave your children in daycare. I have known of a handful of widowed mothers who were still able to stay home with their children and homeschool them, without government assistance, by being creative and industrious. Where there's a will, there's a way. God can provide for his children in any situation, if they seek Him first.

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  45. I don't think that Jesus would lose sight of the innocent children involved in all these cases. They deserve the support of the community, whether or not you approve of their mother's actions.

    His teachings about compassion and love and caring for children--they are not options.

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  46. I think that saying that"
    Assuming that unlike Mary, these single moms did not conceive miraculously while living in celibacy, I say they should not be a single mother to begin with. As in, don't have sex outside marriage, and you cannot end up a single mother." is a naive and uninformed statement. There are so many situations that you cannot foresee/plan for. A cousin of mine had a 3 year old twins when her husband was diagnosed with a rare and typically fatal form of cancer. She had been a SAHM, but was forced to work to support her children and her husband. Her husband passed away when the children were five. She was not emotionally ready to re-marry right after losing her husband. She was grieving and felt that she could never love someone as much as she loved Mark (her late husband). Does she not deserve support? Is it her fault she was a single mother? Did she intentionally become a single mother? No. She did not have the luxury of a large (or wealthy) extended family to support her financially after the death of her husband. Her family did what they could, but she still needed to work in order to provide for her children. My cousin ended up deciding not to remarry, and the twins, now age 16, are delightful and well behaved.

    Here's another situation. Imagine that a twenty year old girl gets raped by a family member. She ends up getting pregnant and decides to keep the baby. Obviously her family situation is tenuous. Where can she turn for support? Should her church not do what it can to support her? Did she intentionally become a single mother? No

    What about this. A good friend of mine, Jessica married a man (who we thought) was a lovely Christian man. They were both believers in purity and saved themselves for marriage. After seven years of marriage and 3 children, her husband started using drugs. He barely ever came home at nights and left Jessica alone with the children. Jessica and her church kept urging him to go to rehabilitation to help him overcome his addiction. He refused to go. Jessica didn't want her children to grow up around drugs, so after a year of pleading she finally told her husband that if he did not get help she was taking the children and leaving. He refused to get help, and Jessica left to raise the children in a healthier environment. She essentially became a single mother. No one, not even other members of the church and people who knew her ex-husband for a long time could have foreseen what ended up happening.

    Finally, a close family friend, also a Christian, was married to a pastor. After 2 years of marriage and one daughter he became abusive toward his wife. He pushed her out of a moving car, punched her several times, and told her he wanted to kill her. She took her daughter and moved in with her parents.

    You say that bad things don't happen if you marry a good Christian man, and yet you fail to see the reality. Please open your eyes and understand that MANY single mothers do not become single mothers by having sex outside of marriage. Everyone has a unique story. We cannot and should not make sweeping generalizations about an entire group of people.

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  47. Some young women become single moms not due to sin on their part but due to wickedness on the part of a man. These young women choose not to murder their child in the womb and grow to love that child in spite of how the child was conceived. That child still needs to be provided for until that woman can find a husband who is willing to marry her and become a father to her child (and being the father of a product of rape is not a task many men are willing to do) You cannot lump all women who work outside the home all together saying they are all going against God's principles.

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  48. Not sure how this thread deteriorated into questions about single motherhood.

    To the anonymous posters: either you are a Christian, in which case I wonder why you do not accept the Bible's prerequisites for widows begin supported by the church. Or you are not a Christian, in which case I wonder what moral absolute you are clinging to that demands those of us who are able to, to care for those who are not.

    Yes, the Bible does command to have compassion toward the fatherless and widows. If we had a lady in our church who found herself widowed and in need of support, I am certain that those individuals within our church who have the means to, would help out in any way they could. However, that is very different front the church (as a body) doing the same. The command to care for those less fortunate is to individuals, and it is voluntary. We always have, and always will, help out our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ within our own church - but it is not a welfare program.

    What about those who do not attend church, you say? Again, I ask: are they Christians? Then they should be in some church. How can they expect God to take care of them while they are in disobedience? If they are not Christians - why are they trying to benefit from God's command to relieve the fatherless, and widows? If there is no God, who are they to demand others take care of them - what moral absolute are they clinging to?

    If there were personal accountability, 99% of welfare cases would be dismissed, because they are sorely abused by the lazy and wicked.

    Also, individuals would have better means to care for the poor if they didn't already have so much money taken out of their paychecks to go toward government programs. Whether or not we want to, we are being FORCED, daily, to support the poor as well as undeserving (again, 99%), so why is this even a point of discussion?

    Finally, there is a HUGE difference between "single moms" who are one due to divorce or fornication, and widows with children. For one, the first accounts for the very vast majority of households in which there is no father/husband. There is probably one widow for every several hundred "single moms". Why should my marriage have to bear the strain of a husband that has to work two jobs to make ends meet, because we are forced to support the wicked lifestyles of the lazy and sinful?

    Your examples are ludicrous. How many girls get raped by a relative, and end up pregnant? I know it happens, but what percentage of "single moms" does this tiny minority make up?

    In the case of the woman who left her husband over his drug use - that's her fault. The bible clearly commands wives not to leave their husbands, and promises that their children are sanctified by the believing parent (i.e., it only takes one godly parent to raise righteous kids). Her begin a bossy rebel, rather than a submissive wife, is more damaging to the children than their dad taking drugs. Did she not vow to stay with him until death?

    Your last example of the lady with the abusive husband - sounds like she did just as the bible commands, and moved back in with her father. So why the need for intervention there? She can be under her husband's authority, or that of her father. If she wants to live the lifestyle of an independent woman, she will have to foot the bill herself. In which case, she will be answering to a boss instead of her dad or husband. I'm guessing you mean she wants to do none of those, so she wants to collect welfare and live independently - nice! Sure, we'll all gladly pay for that, while all answering to OUR bosses or husbands.

    If you have such a bleeding heart for random strangers who are in a bind due to their own immorality - by all means, help them as much as you like. But don't try to drag God into it.

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  49. Oh my, it certainly took me a long time to get through scrolling down on this post!

    AMEN! I loved this post; so true!

    Michele S ~ Your story about the dad at the pool had me cracking up! :)

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  50. "
    In the case of the woman who left her husband over his drug use - that's her fault. The bible clearly commands wives not to leave their husbands, and promises that their children are sanctified by the believing parent (i.e., it only takes one godly parent to raise righteous kids). Her begin a bossy rebel, rather than a submissive wife, is more damaging to the children than their dad taking drugs. Did she not vow to stay with him until death?
    "

    Do you truly think it's better for children to live in a hoe with used hypo-dermic needles and other drug paraphernalia lying around and a father who makes rash and borderline dangerous choices (while using drugs) than it is for them to live in a safe environment with their mother. I think children are MUCH MORE DAMAGED by drug exposure than a lack of submission. Take this from someone who knows firsthand the horrors of being raised by a drug addicted parent. No child should have to go through that.

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  51. You wrote

    "When I use the term "attachment parenting", I mean what our modern culture means by that - the child is in charge, with no punishment or negative consequences ever."

    Which indicates that you are talking about 'permissive parenting' -- while you seem to think you are talking about attachment parenting. That's confusing. Many attachment parents fully embrace their authority over their children, apply consequences and discipline thoughtfully with high standards and excellent results.

    Even so, this style of strict discipline may not meet your standards since the people who employ it rarely punish children simply to apply pain in response to an offense. They almost never choose corporal punishment as a tool because they are usually attempting to teach through sensible consequences that are related to the offense.

    Corporal punishment is not the only form of discipline or strategic child rearing that should be considered "Biblical".

    Your criticism 'stands' against permissive parenting. It's just that permissive parenting and attachment parenting are not the same thing. There are no Biblical commands or principles that actually stand against dedicated discipline-rich attachment parenting.

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  52. For the thirtieth blessed time: no, it's not other people's job to feed irrisponsible women and the result of their lifestyle. These women take advantage of people every step of the way pointing at their innocent children. Yes it's not their fault that theybhave to live in shame because their mother lived and contnues to live in sin, but it is not anyone else's job to feed them. Since the mother has no sense of shame whatsoever, she can stomach to take jobs that are similar to her lifestyle. Ps raped by a relative? Point 0000000001 to one dumped single mother. You have lived off of society for too long and it will continue. Yes, there are people out there who will just watch you bear the consequences of your reckless actions. We do the same thing except we have nothing to be ashamed of. Greetings to Zsuzsanna. To single mothers here: stop posting and take.your ankles to work finally, don't just boar around asking for money.

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  53. In what way is an addicted father preferable to a single parent? How on earth is watching someone under the influence of drugs a healthy environment for children to be in, no matter how devout the mother?

    How would you cope if Steven suddenly became addicted to drugs? I know it is strictly against your beliefs, but just for a second imagine your children were exposed to a father who used drugs, was high or otherwise affected in their presence and spent money towards the house and family on drugs instead, would you really want them to be in that situation?

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  54. I understand that you hate abortion and want to save innocent lives from death.

    But after they are saved, these infants should live with their sinful mothers, suffer deprivations from poverty and neglect, without you or your church lifting a finger?

    There are dozens of homeless children in Tempe. I read an excellent book about a doctor who ministers to them. What do you and your church do to help them?

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  55. To the last Anon: aborted babies should not have conceived in the first place! Are you really that dumb? Obviously, yes. Don't just concieve like an alley cat so your unwanted offsprings won't have to be saved to become another mouth to feed for responsible communities. Or, if you want to live with the moral standards of an animal, you are welcome to go and live in the jungle. Cheers.

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  56. I may have the wrong message from this, but it sounds as though you value financial support over love in a relationship. It took my husband and I some five years to decide we were ready for the commitment of marriage, were he to pass away, my sons are some 15 years away from holding a full time job, and my father couldn't support me as a child much less now. Given your attitude toward assistance to a widow either welfare/charity or government provided, would I truly be expected to just rush into a second marriage as means of obtaining monetary support? If being a working, single mother and sending my children to school or daycare allowed me the time to grieve, heal, and take the time to find a new man who would honor and love me as my husband does, then I prefer do that rather than marrying someone I may not know well enough, before I'm ready, or my children may dislike for the sake of not working and remaining submissive and godly as it sounds you are suggesting. A god who deem me a sinner unless I entered into another marriage for money instead of taking my time to find love, respect and trust is not a god I want to worship.

    Also, and I apologise for the back tracking, (I meant to ask when you posted, bit you know how it is raising a family!) with regards to your breast feeding post where you quote Bible verses - were they written by men? You would not see a male obstetrician, midwife or lactation consultant partly because of exposing yourself, but also because no male could understand as well as a woman with regards to those matters, why are you letting a male from so many years ago dictate how you nurse your child now? How can a man from back then, when men seemed less involved with babies and breastfeeding than today know anything about what is right or healthier for a baby?

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  57. I was raised in a home where my father was addicted to drugs and my mother trying to keep my sisters and I in Christian schools and church. Both of my parents claim to know Jesus, however, neither currently live it. My mother divorced my dad after my junior year of high school. So I was mostly raised. My sisters are three and six years younger than I am so the youngest was raised with a single mother. We were all much better off all under one roof. My parents are not wanting to hear what the Bible says of their choices and justify all of it. My mother is having a harder life since divorce not easier, my sisters were out of control the youngest still is and is not a Christian with a live in boyfriend who is seven years older while she is not yet out of high school. The Bible speaks truth!!! A Christian does not need to live it to know what is right. And there are no exceptions or special cases.

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  58. Wow! Both topics have caused alot of discussion. The Bible is our best guidebook for life, so I went to my Bible to see what I could find. Both topics have seemed to be put in a light that we should look down on or judge those who parent differently or are single mothers. The Bible clearly says we are not to judge others (Luke 6:35-37, Matt. 7:1-2). We need to be a light in this world to show others the way to Christ (Matt. 5:14-16). God is not only a God of judgement but a God of love and mercy, we should show His love and mercy to those around us. That doesn't mean opening our purse strings to every con that comes along, for we are to be wise & discerning (Matt. 10:16) but there are those in true need that don't know Jesus as their Savior who we can help whether by giving time, money, necessities, babysitting or whatever is needed in the situation. If I am understanding correctly, Szuszanna, you feel that God isn't concerned in non-believers and that we shouldn't drag Him into it if we decide to help a non-believer. Here are some verses which state God's view of the poor and how we should help them: Luke 14:13-14, Matt. 5:42-47, Matt. 25:35-40, Prov. 14:21, Deut 15:11. Prov. 14:31 also tells us what is a reproach to God and what honors Him, in regards to the poor. I will leave it up to those reading this to look up the verses in order to understand God's view on this subject.
    God bless!

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  59. Quote: "Your examples are ludicrous. How many girls get raped by a relative, and end up pregnant? I know it happens, but what percentage of "single moms" does this tiny minority make up?"

    I know from experience that her examples are not as ludicrous as they might seem. Because my husband and I care about children after they are born, we were foster parents for a number of years.

    The first little boy we took care of Michael, was born because a 17 year old boy, raped his 14 year old sister. The 14 year old tried to raise him, but couldn't thus he was in the foster care system. He was eventually adopted by a wonderful family.

    The fourth little boy we took care of was Diamond (yes Diamond), he was not only the product of a father raping his daughter but he was also a crack baby and had been in the system since birth. He eventually went to live with a relative.

    Considering we only took care of 10 children, 20% of those children had been a product of not only rape, but incest.

    You always comment that teachers, doctors, police, etc. are perverts but in reality the pervert is often the person sitting next to you at church.

    I'm keeping anonymous in order to protect these childrens privacy.

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    Replies
    1. Anonymous foster parent,
      You have had a positive influence in the lives of these children! That is a wonderful and Christlike example of reaching out to others!
      And for those who laugh at these stories have no idea of the hurting world we live in! I could tell a similar story, only it was her dad and her brother who were molesting her, she miscarried and her brother and father were found out. There are more situations out there like this than anyone realizes.
      And I agree with the comment about perverts sitting next to you in church. That is a horrible thing to have to think about, but there are wolves in sheep's clothing.

      Delete
  60. Ah for crying out lout. Dear welfare ladies, feel free to move along, turn off your computers, reduce your monthly expenses by not having internet in the home, and instead of surfing online like you could afford it time and moneywise, go and get a job.
    There is no coupons for you here, no food stamps, no free cans of beans, no free beer, nothing.
    This church will support it's own members and whoever on Earth they find it worthy to, and at all, whoever they please.
    Make your own Free Spirited Excitement Lover Dumped Maiden Mum's Association and support each other with the same beliefs. Believe me, no one from this church will knock on your door.

    And one more time so that everybody can get it: go and get a job instead of sitting around an posting online.

    Have another nice day on welfare.

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  61. OK, this comment knocked me out: "The 17 year old boy was raped by his 14yo daughter" - if you have ever heard a really loud and ugly laughter, I just did that. That was a really inappropriate and loud laughter. You, whoever you are! I shared it via MSN, now you have 45 people laughing out loud. Do you even believe these stories or you come up with them high on mushrooms or whatever you take? You should consult a doctor soon. I'm blowing my nose and drying up my tears. I still cannot catch my breath. Sheesh, you come up with whatever lies you can just to defend your bogus liberal ways.

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  62. A widow who would enter a marriage just for financial support would seem more like a prostitute to me.

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  63. I don't want to get deeply into this, because I don't have the time or inclination to write an essay about it. However, in my humble opinion, there ARE exceptions to the "all single mothers are whores out of G-d's grace" (paraphrased). My mother divorced my father when my sister and I were very young because he was growing marijuana and blowing every penny they had. He had convinced my mother he was a devout man of faith and she married him in that state. After the divorce she went to work, leaving us with our grandparents during the day and later in a wonderful religious school. After several years she sustained a work related injury and was unable to continue working, so she made crafts and sold knick knacks at the flea market to make ends meet, though eventually she gave us into the custody of our grandparents, who were better able to care for us. She did not remarry, and worked herself to the bone to take care of us, giving what she could to our grandparents for our support. My father did not pay child support and I barely know him despite the fact that he has lived in the same town practically all of my life. My sister and I were raised in an unconventional home, but managed to turn out alright after all. My mother is my role model; she loved us enough to protect us and provide for us on her own as long as she was able, and gave us up to our grandparents when she was no longer able to do so. She remains a woman of G-d and an inspiration to me. I suppose I've written too much after all, but it angers me that so many of the posters here can so easily dismiss the legitimate struggles of others, and I can only hope that if any of them end up in similar situations they don't become victims of the apathy they so readily display to others. There are many women who use the system and have no one but themselves to blame for their struggles, but who are we to determine that? G-d says to care for the poor, not to run a background check and make assumptions to determine who is "worthy". I give money to panhandlers and beggars, because I know that I am doing the right thing, regardless of what the recipients choose to do with it. Once that dollar is out of my hand it is in G-d's, and I feel good about that, and think we should trust HIM, if not the people we are giving to.
    -Rivkah H.

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  64. To the person who wrote: "OK, this comment knocked me out: "The 17 year old boy was raped by his 14yo daughter" - if you have ever heard a really loud and ugly laughter, I just did that. That was a really inappropriate and loud laughter. You, whoever you are! I shared it via MSN, now you have 45 people laughing out loud. Do you even believe these stories or you come up with them high on mushrooms or whatever you take? You should consult a doctor soon. I'm blowing my nose and drying up my tears. I still cannot catch my breath. Sheesh, you come up with whatever lies you can just to defend your bogus liberal ways."

    You clearly did not read the original comment. It said "The first little boy we took care of Michael, was born because a 17 year old boy, raped his 14 year old sister" If you are sincerely laughing about that situation, you need to really think about whether or not you are following Christ's example.

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  65. This is Anonymus Foster Parent

    whitesandblueocean - obviously that was a mistake and it was supposed to be a 17 year old boy raped his 14 year old sister.

    I'm glad you think it is so funny.

    It was really funny sitting with him when he was 3 years old and cried because he had to have every genetic test in the world and was poked by needles and examined and tested by doctors.

    It was really funny when I had to teach him that he could come out of his room in the morning when he woke up because he previous foster parent made him stay in his room all day long.

    It was really funny when I had to teach a three year old how to walk beside me in the store because he was never allowed to go anywhere.

    It was really funny when he took every single one of his toys to bed at night because they were the only security he had.

    It was really funny when he had an accident in his pants and tried to clean it up himself (thus making a bigger mess) because he was afraid we would beat him for it.

    I imagine it was really super funny when his adoptive parents had to tell him of his parentage and I imagine it will be very funny when he has to tell his future wife.

    I'm glad you got such a chuckle out of this child's difficult start in life.

    CC - Thank you for your kind words. Foster parenting was very rewarding, but emotionally exhausting. We just couldn't do it anymore after a few years.

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  66. Why are there so many anonymous posters? If you believe what you write you shouldn't be so ashamed you have to hide in anonymity. I can understand the foster mom, she has a legitimate reason. The rest I suspect are cowards.

    To the one of many anonymous posters above who wrote: "To single mothers here: stop posting and take.your ankles to work finally, don't just boar around asking for money." I don't know what boar around means but this single mother worked from age 21 to 67. I became a mother at ages 32, 34, and 38. At 42 I became a single mother. Life doesn't always turn out the way you think it will. I know a single mom whose 6 y.o. son died a year ago of a malignant brain tumor. 6 months after his diagnosis his Dad died of an asthma attack, totally out of the blue. His wife was 3 months pregnant. So now she's a single mom with a baby and another little girl, 8 y.o. I sure hope she never runs into any judgmental people like the anonymous posters here, and you too Zsuzanna. There but for the grace of God go you. Statistically some of you will end up single mothers, through divorce or death. And if you say that can't happen to you guess again.

    I have a college classmate who became pregnant at age 42 with her one and only child. She wasn't married and remains unmarried. Should she have had an abortion even though she very much wanted this child? And she's still working full time at age 67.

    I know several single mothers and I do NOT know a single one who was ever on welfare.

    The Jesus I know and believe in said something about suffer the little children to come unto Me. He didn't say suffer the little children whose mother and father are married to each other to come unto Me. The greatest commandment? To love one another.

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