Monday, July 7, 2008

Did I already mention that I hate IVF?

My sister-in-law sent me a news article today about doctors in Africa trying to perform in-vitro fertilization procedures for as little as $200. The article stated that the infertility rate in Africa is 30%, and that not having children is a great stigma. The reasons behind such a high rate of women who cannot have kids naturally are "unsafe deliveries, abortions or infections". This list is not necessarily given in order of frequency, in fact, my guess is that isn't.

"Infections" is a nice way to say that these women have been rendered infertile by the STDs that run rampant in Africa, diseases that would almost certainly be passed on to the babies created through IVF. Sure, I feel bad that people live in a country where they were probably infected by their own parents, but do we need to continue that cycle of disease through sponsored IVF procedures? Besides, maybe instead of handing out condoms like candy, these people should be taught not to live like animals and sleep with everyone and everything that moves. Statistics have proven over and over that distributing condoms RAISES the incidence of STDs. This is due to the fact that people will fornicate more because they feel safe, when condoms are only effective about 60% of the time because of product failure or incorrect use. In America, New York City has the most aggressive program to combat STDs, and they hand out more condoms than any other city. Yet their per-capita rate of STDs is the highest in the country.

The second reason given was "abortion". Why any humanitarian organization would pay a woman to have IVF who has previously aborted a baby is beyond me. Obviously, she doesn't love kids.

I won't even get started on the "unsafe deliveries" part. It means that deliveries in their hospitals are unsafe because of ancient, dangerous, and dirty equipment. Of course women would fare much safer to just have the baby at home on their own, like millions of women have throughout history. Delivering a baby in Africa is no more dangerous in and of itself than delivering a baby in America. It's the people who are attending the birth and interfering with it that are the danger. There are other factors like a lack of clean water and food that cause greater rates of infant mortality, but these factors don't permanently affect the mothers fertility.

Did you know that our government gives millions upon millions to organizations that supposedly bring humanitarian aid to Africa? Well, our taxes are paying for condoms, vaccines, abortions, and now IVF.

There are many reasons why I despise IVF, and cannot fathom how anyone that understands the procedure can do it with a clear conscience, especially Christians. Their absolute selfishness is mind-boggling. Why would you kill scores and scores of babies just so you can have that token child that you want to show around so bad? But these people will always go out of their way to tell you how humane the procedure really is, and how it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

Well, I stumbled across a blog by a previously "infertile" woman who in her "About Me" page details her IVF history. I would link to her blog to prove I am telling the truth, but I won't because I thought the woman was inappropriate, vulgar, and a psycho. So you'll just have to believe me that I didn't make it up, and all you IVF freaks out there can tell yourself I'm just lying. And I quote:
April 2000 – Got married, went off birth control pills
Nov 2000 – had a lap to check that insides were all ok
Jan 2001 – IUI#1 – negative
Feb 2001 – IUI#2 – negative
April 2001 – IUI#3 – negative
May 2001 – IVF#1 – cancelled, due to poor response
Sep 2001 – IVF#2 – 25 eggs, zero fert, rescue ICSI, negative
Jan 2002 – IVF#3 – 35 eggs, 34 embies, positive, but ectopic
Apr 2002 – IVF#4 – FET, negative
May 2002 – IVF#5 – FET, negative
Jun 2002 – IVF#6 – FET, negative
Nov 2002 – IVF#7 – 28 eggs, 24 embies, positive, vanishing twin, miscarriage at 8w3d, D&C
May 2003 – IVF#8 – 8 eggs, 4 embies, positive, quads, S/R to twins, lost one twin, Luke at 21w
Jan 2004 – Ben born prematurely at 26w, 4 Jan 2004, died 14 Jan 2004
Feb 2003 – lap and HSG
April 2004 – IVF#9 – 20 eggs, 18 embies, positive, twins
Jan 2005 - Adam and Kate born 7 Jan 2005
March 2007 - Surprise pregnancy! That would be pregnancy number 5. Not so much of a surprise miscarriage follows.
June 2007 - IVF#10 - FET, negative
April 2008 - Oh look! Another surprise pregnancy! Pregnancy #6! An equally unsurprising miscarriage follows soon thereafter. I really suck at this whole getting and staying pregnant thing.
Think I might give it up as a bad job.
Since the woman is 39, it means she was 31 when she got married, and had probably been on hormonal birth control for at least 10 years. Nevertheless, she gets checked out after just 7 months of marriage to see why she "can't" get pregnant, and starts artificial you-know-what after just 9 months of marriage. All three attempts are unsuccessful, so she switches to IVF, which she undergoes a total of 10 times. In all, 116 eggs are harvested in the 5 "successful" IVF procedures, with a total of 80 embryos conceived. For all that, the woman now has 2 living children. In addition, a third baby was lost after being born prematurely at 26 weeks. I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that this particular pregnancy started out with 4 babies, 2 of which they killed in order to increase the chances of the other two living. One of the remaining two babies died in utero at 21 weeks, the other is the one who was born prematurely and died (see points May 2003 and Jan 2004 above).

And, what a shock, in spite of being a walking hormonal cocktail from years of IVF, this woman was able to naturally conceive at age 38 and again at 39, both of which times she miscarried. Don't you just feel so bad for her? I mean, after all, she has already killed 76 babies, and had 2 more die prematurely.

I think "monster" describes this woman very well, as it does any other woman who would knowingly kill their offspring because they just have to have a baby so bad. After all, it's just like in Africa, where not having babies makes you a social outcast. If it means having to kill a few unborn babies for your peers to like you, then so be it, right?


  1. This woman is a monster. Further, I don't see how anyone could have the patience or money to go through IVF that many times.
    On another note I can understand the desire to have a baby. I have never used birth control. I was a virgin when my husband and I got married so I felt I had avoided the big mistakes. However, I don't think God pulls out your lists of sins to determine when and if you have children. I became pregnant with our son after two and half years of marriage. I had actually told myself that I would probably never have children and I would just have be okay with that. I have very little patience and it didn't help that couples around us who had been married less time where having babies. I personally know a woman who is a horrible mother had has two little boys ,2 and a half years and six months old. I have read of women who want children but can't get pregnant after years of trying or constantly miscarry. I feel for the women who have went the trouble of going to the doctor after years of disappointment, having embarrassing tests run and then hearing "there's nothing wrong with you. By all means you should be able to conceive." I think you should post a blog on the subject of infertility sometime and the biblical way to deal with it. I worry sometimes that I won't have any more children and though that may be God's will for some people it can be hard to accept especially if you have to watch it happen all around you.

    God Bless,

  2. Oh my word, how incredible. That woman is a monster for sure. WOW.

  3. The World Health Organization complains about children being born into a lifestyle of poverty and disease and therefore puts African women on birth control to "control the population". If one in three women there is infertile, then it sounds to me like God is already controlling the population. If they don't want poor people to reproduce, then why are they helping them use ivf? I guess it goes back to the whole two child ideal that our society thinks every one should have.

  4. UPDATE: I think some bleeding heart out there read my post and felt the need to either link to it or tell all their friends about it because I received 7 comments within 20 minutes telling me that I am all wrong and how judgmental I am. Why, thank you! I have heard that many times before, and always take it as a compliment.

    You will notice that none of the comments were published. No, I will not give someone who condones murder a platform for their agenda, especially not if they are quoting false versions to prove their point.

  5. I would like to add that I feel very bad for any woman who cannot have children, or a woman who habitually miscarries. I also feel bad for a single girl who finds herself pregnant. But that does not mean that I condone murder (in the form of IVF and abortion) in order to fix these problems, whether or not these people are unbelievers.

    It may be news to you that God expects unbelievers to abide by the same laws that he expects Christians to abide by. After all, if they never get saved, they will then be judged by their works and spend eternity in hell for breaking God's laws.

    To all you supposed Christians out there, may I remind you that there is not one instance in the entire Bible about a barren woman who did not eventually have children - when God thought the timing was right. But go ahead and sleep with the bond woman Hagar (IVF) and have an Ishmael (that brat you can't seem to handle). A real Christian would rather wait for the child of promise. Ishmael and Isaac are pictures in the Bible of people working for their own salvation, rather than putting their faith in God to save them.

    In the case of this woman, I have no pity for her losing a few babies "naturally" because she is a mass murderer who willingly killed scores and scores of her children. In fact, the pregnancy that ended with the premature death of the twin boys started out with 4 babies, two of which she "selectively reduced" i.e. had killed. If she herself didn't feel bad about killing two kids, why should I feel sorry for her that two more died? Shouldn't someone feel bad for the 76 babies? This woman herself proves how heartless she is when she refers to her young son with a term that is so vulgar I cannot repeat on here. I don't remember calling anyone that since I became a Christian, let alone one of my kids, and yet she refers to her son by that term.

    Comments for this blog post are closed.

  6. "But go ahead and sleep with the bond woman Hagar (IVF) and have an Ishmael (that brat you can't seem to handle). A real Christian would rather wait for the child of promise."

    I can tell you really feel for the woman who has a medical reason she cannot get pregnant, that IVF can fix. You can do IVF without doing selective reduction or destruction of embryos- in which case no abortion is done.

    Your argument that no barren woman who cried to God in the Bible didn't conceive is pointless. They don't write stories about people who never lived. You're saying by putting it this way that every faith-filled woman will have a child- after all, all of them did in the Bible. How does your husband minister to childless women who are faithful, lifelong Christians. My suspicion is that he doesn't have to, as they have found somewhere else to be disciples.

    Just remember, Jesus warned that the same judgment you dish to others is the same thing you will be served. You seem pretty quick to be very harsh. May God have more mercy on you than you do on others.

    I know the comments for this section are closed, and doubt you will even read this, as you dont want to distort your rants with compassion, truth, grace or Christ.

  7. "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

    It's all level ground at the cross. Hatred in your heart toward another human being counts as murder, Jesus says so in the Matthew. By that definition, you're a murderer too. Zsusanna, I'm saying this because you need to open your eyes to the gospel. Christ died for sinners and you are one of them. If you truly embrace your salvation then live it out in joy and instead of being the unmerciful servant to others like Tertia, extend her the grace that Christ has extended you. Live by your own philosophy. Otherwise you're just a modern-day pharisee, a clanging cymbol, doing it all without love. And that I KNOW Christ condemns.

    Pray about it.

  8. there is nothing of the "grace of Christ" in your post.

  9. I thought Christians were people who do not cast judgment. Yay for you and your 5 kids. If you never had children or if your children couldn't have children you would be singing a different song. Don't judge others especially if you haven't walked a mile in their shoes. Shame on you. People like you are the reason I do not believe in organized religion. God cries when he hears you...

  10. Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mathew 7:1

    I'm not sure what your true motives of this post are, but I think the above scripture is what you need to see at this time.

    I thought it was good post until you started with the personal attacks. You could have gotten your point across without them.

    Good intent, HORRIBLE execution.

    Please remember this 'monster' is human and has feelings, just like you!

    May God continue to bless you and your family!

  11. You obviously do have children so, quite frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.

  12. Although I agree with your views on IVF and would never go down that route, for exactly the reasons that you describe, for you to condemn so harshly those that have gone through infertility treatments, while you have your five children and are pregnant with a sixth, is somewhat offensive. I'm a Christian who's dealing with infertility right now. I have chosen not to accept treatment and will wait on God's will and timing. Although I believe IVF is wrong I will not condemn those that go down that route as harshly as you do, because I understand their pain. It's very obvious that you do not.

  13. Just curious.. what are your thoughts on adoption? I have not birthed natural children, but have opened my home to a child who was an orphan in a third world county. He is my love, MY child and the best thing that has happened to my family. I have never had tests done to see if I am "barren." My husband has a very long and serious medical history that prevents us (as far as we know) from conceiving. My desire was to be a mother. I did not really care if the child was formed inside of me or not. The way your blog reads, is this "planning" my family too much? Again, I am just asking. I love Jesus and do my best to follow Him daily. I have no desire to take part in all the anger in these comments. I just thought I would see where you stood on this subject. Maybe you have covered it before. I am not a regular reader of your blog. I stumbled upon it the other day....

  14. Funny I just read an article about the maternal mortality rate in Somalia. It was about a woman who died in childbirth due to anemia and eclampsia, two conditions that could have been prevented if she had sanitary conditions and trained personnel attending to her. Home birth isn't a panacea to maternal death, not when there isn't access to even soap and water at home.

  15. i think 'monster' is abit harsh, first I'd say she's unsaved by the Grace of God, and second, not everyone is knowingly killing off their babies with birth control pills you know. I used to use them and was simply completely uneducated on what they actually did. I didn't know anything about them. :/ It wasn't until I'd actually stopped using them for an entirely different reason that I found out what they essentially are in the eyes of God.
    We are blessed with being ridiculously fertile too, lol. We seem to get pregnant at the drop of a hat, I wish my body was strong enough to have alot more, we can certainly afford it, but I've had several operations over the years and don't think I'm very strong to handle pregnancies and lugging children around on my hips lol. (My babies are big, strong and heavy!)
    We use condoms now which I don't see anything wrong with. I would never ever again use pills.
    As for abourtion, don't get me started! :O
    I feel like throwing up literally at those photos you have on here!
    I saw a video on youtube about abortion with mostly the same pics and bawled my eyes out! I just cried and cried and cried!! & prayed and prayed for the ppl in this world who are so lost and have had abortions, and the disgusting ppl doing the operations, & for the precious little babies who Praise God are with Him in Heaven! & for my own children!! I was so attacked by satan over my last pregnancy, I was just over it, didnt want to go through all the pain and weight gain and no sleep all over again, and I really really hated being pregnant, I desperately wanted an abortion, but I knew in my soul it was murder & I couldn't do it. I was so messed up :( It took about two months to say enough, I am having this baby and I know I'm going to adore him like the others as soon as I see him, even before that, as soon as I feel him kick! :) & indeed I do! He's such a huge blessing from God!! & I praise God that though I was so heavily attacked with evil thoughts like that God refused to let me commit such an evil sin! & like I said, has blessed us with such a darling boy!! He's a hilarious little 10month old monkey :)
    These women who have 'aborted' their babies, should not be hated, they should be prayed for. We r supposed to pray for God's Grace on the lives of the lost, that they might b saved, not judge them, after all, we r no better than any of them apart from the Grace of God.

  16. How do you feel about Clomid? I used to be able to ovulate naturally but stopped just a few months shy of my husband and I wanting to start trying to have children. So I've been on several rounds of Clomid that haven't worked. I'm taking a two month break and then will go back for heavier dosing.

    I was wondering about the IVF thing being "Christian", but when I asked my husband, he said that God gave people brains and innovations, which we should make use of. Basically saying that it isn't a sin to get IVF because it's just another way of God providing you a baby if that makes sense? I hadn't really thought much more about it until today because I know I have a few more Clomid rounds to look forward to...ha ha.

    I do want a child very badly, and I know I've made some life choices that ruined that thus far (like not starting when we first got married). I have asked for forgiveness for that, though. I just want my fertility back, but I'm honestly I'm already sick of how the Clomid makes me feel. Much less going through rounds of injectable hormones right? It's a very tough decision that I've been praying on awhile.

    Well, I'd appreciate your thoughts. Have a blessed day!

  17. wow! i never really thought of it this way!! this is horrible!!! all those precious babies, lost!!!
    don't let the nasty comments get you down. if you have ever read any of the free jinger group's writings- the group largely responsible for comments like this- you will see how sad a group they are. they have had painful lives and like to blame others. so keep up the good work!

  18. Lol what's this about free Jinger?? Do these people not realize that girl loves her family and is so happy and well cared for?? What on earth makes them think she wants to b 'free' and join this sick world, she's protected at her house by God fearing parents!

  19. Zsu, I don't know if you'll print this, because it's a dissenting opinion, but I had to comment.

    1. To Ashley - you don't need the approval of someone on the internet to do what you believe is right. If you and your husband believe that God put you on the path of using Clomid to get pregnant, that is your business. I wish you the best of luck!

    2. I cannot have children for several medical reasons. It's something that still hurts me, even nearly 15 years after getting married. Am I to believe that it's because of some sin I've committed? Are those who have children better people than I? It's quite a contradiction coming from a person who doesn't believe that "good works" are the path to salvation.

    However, I refuse to believe that I am being punished. God has rewarded me with the love of many nieces and nephews, as well as the love from children of friends and other relatives. For some reason, I am a kid magnet. Babies I've never met before, who usually don't let strangers near them, coo and smile and interact with me. I'm the designated playmate whenever visiting the homes of toddlers. My tween, pre-teen and teenaged nieces and nephews confide in me, and aren't embarrassed to hang out with their "cool auntie." Often, I am the first person they want to call or email when they have good news. I may not be a biological mother, but I have a mothering spirit. In a way, I think that not having children of my own has afforded me the time, effort and resources to be an attentive auntie.

    3. I'm not sure what to think about your statement that every woman in the bible who was barren at some point became a mother. What about the hundreds of thousands of women who lived during biblical times who never who were never mentioned in the bible? I am sure some of them, perhaps many of them, never had children. I just think that it is an ignorant statement.

    Lastly, I think that It is unfair and cruel to judge and insinuate that a woman isn't "good enough" to be blessed with children. Truly, you cannot judge another unless you have walked a mile in their shoes.

  20. Just wondering.. are you aware that 1/3 of women in South Africa reported being raped in the last year alone.... They have a better chance of getting raped than learning how to read....

    So it's not that they're "live like animals and sleep with everyone and everything that moves" as you so bluntly put it.

    My statistics were taken from the following website:

  21. I am so disturbed and sad about your comments about African people. Do you not think about the culture of rape used as a tool for power over others? What a disrespectful approach you have to giving your point. God is clear that He weeps over the pain of others, and instead you are gloating that they are like animals.

  22. How on earth is IVF murder?! I am a child of in vitro and I know that God loves me just as much as he loves you all, and I know for sure that he wanted me to exist. If God didn't want this to happen, he would have said something of it in the Bible. I hope you're happy, raising seven children up to believe that I am a "Frankenbaby"

  23. Your contempt for the African people is as clear as day in this little speech, referring to them as promiscuous animals despite, and disregarding the fact that most pregnancies are conceived in rape - but no, to you the women are just as evil because they DARE to try and protect themselves from STDs.

    As a Christian, you should know better than to pass judgment on others, but here you are, gloating. I'd like to see you try to survive in such a place and trying to care for your children.

  24. Wow. Fortunately, I don't need your approval, but IVF is the very OPPOSITE of murder. If not for IVF the three children this woman has wouldn't have been born. And if you believe that life starts at conception, then, yes, I can understand viewing as murder the destruction of unused embryos, but by creating them (in a petri dish or whatever) she's GIVING those embryos life, though sadly it didn't last in most of them.

    I have only done one IVF, and won't be doing it again. 12 eggs were retrieved. No sperm was found. So... are you gonna tell me that I killed 12 of my babies then?

  25. I came across this looking for pro life literature and all I have to say is WOW. I absolutely agree with you that she just didn't give it enough time. Basic rule of thumb is you should see a doctor if you are unsuccessful after a year of trying to conceive. My husband and I waited about 3 years to seek help and our daughter was conceived the first cycle on Clomid. You may not agree with the use of fertility medications and I respect that. But I just wanted to say that reading this opened my eyes to just how careless fertility doctors are to allow women to abuse IVF in this way.

  26. Hi zsuzsanna, what an interesting post, I completley agree. I have polycystic ovary syndrome and do not yet have any children and certain (unsaved) family members keep mentioning IVF to me and I keep trying to explain how unnatural, invasive and wrong it is. Unfortunatley my husband is unsaved (I got saved after marriage) however thankfully he is totally against IVF. It can be hard sometimes but I have to trust in Gods timing and will not mine. I really enjoy reading your blog-they are so informative. I hope you and your family had a great Christmas. God Bless. Emma.


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