Wednesday, February 26, 2014

Stevia is safe - OR ELSE!

As I knew it would, my review of the latest and greatest dieting craze, Trim Healthy Mama, has drawn the attention of many readers. I was just surprised how quickly it touched off an online firestorm, all because I dared point out flaws in the holy cow of "natural" sweeteners, stevia - while repeatedly making it clear that the principles behind the plan itself work exceptionally well, and can be followed without the use of stevia or the other plan-approved sweeteners.


Unlike the authors of the book, and the THM admins on Facebook, I have so far posted every comment, and have every intention to continue to do so. The vast majority of comments confirmed what my post was about: the program works, but stevia causes miscarriage and/or infertility. This is as sad as it is true.

My post ignited a firestorm on the main THM Facebook group the same day I posted it, when someone I do not know shared a link to it there.



When this was first posted, I happened to be stuck in the waiting room at my OB's office, surfing Facebook. I texted my husband and asked him to take a screen shot, because I knew it would soon be deleted. No gift of prophecy necessary - it's par for the course on any THM board.





Things quickly started to crash and burn after that, with post after post getting yanked from the board, other ladies expressing their anger over this, and many more yet going on there and pledging their undying support for the authors and the admins, who "work so hard." I guess working hard at something automatically makes it immune from failure. 




I have since been banned from all THM groups, in spite of the fact that I have repeatedly said the program works well, that I follow the program myself (minus the suggested Frankenfoods), that I did not post anything on their board that violates their rules, or any other such thing. I was banned because I dared share my experiences with stevia on my own, personal blog, which is not connected to THM in any way, shape, or form. It's kind of like when teachers get fired because they post on Facebook in support of traditional marriage. 



Here is my big beef with Pearl and Serene, the authors of the Trim Healthy Mama book: They have failed to do their due diligence in pointing out possible harmful effects of stevia. 

In fact, not only have they failed to do so, but they are making a concerted, aggressive attempt to never allow this issue to surface. 

The three defenses they have used to date are:

(1) They do not wish to "sow seeds of fear" in their members. This reasoning has been stated again and again. In other words, it might worry people - and unnecessarily so, in the minds of these self-proclaimed, infallible nutritional experts and scientists. By very definition, this would completely PRECLUDE them from being able to shed any light on the stevia controversy. Remember, they are trying to stay away from every "seed" of fear.

(2) They are trying to avoid all "drama" and "negativity" on their boards. Well, that is very sweet of them indeed, and a point I can certainly sympathize with. The only problem is, some issues, unpleasant though they may be, MUST be brought to light to prevent greater harm. I guess there is no entirely positive way in which to tell someone they are wrong, and attempt to correct them.

(3) They have already covered this subject extensively, so much so that all their members are more than well aware of the issue. In other words, people who keep questioning the safety of stevia are kicking a dead horse, tying up the board, boring other members, and somehow unduly burdening the FB group admins by doing so. Of course, point (3) completely flies in the face of points (1) and (2), but don't let that bother you. Also, the vast majority of THM followers are NOT aware of this, at all. If they are, they most likely did NOT hear it on any public THM outlet. Which is why, when the topic briefly surfaces before being shut down, people start following the thread, react with "what? is this true? I have never heard this before," and the like. I, for one, was completely unaware of any possible dangers of stevia, until someone outside the THM world brought it to my attention.

There are also many controversies surrounding the safety of vaccines, pharmaceuticals, water fluoridation, and other things the government deems not just perfectly safe, but actually health-promoting. Yet, in the interest of informed consent, all these come with more warnings than the THM authors are willing to give about stevia. They are so sure of its completely unverified safety as relating to human reproduction that in spite of their Biblical beliefs and pro-life position, they are willing to make the decision for all their followers to just shut up already and use stevia, because they said so. Disagree, even on your own website, and the boot you will get.

If the program works equally well with natural sweeteners that the Bible has nothing but good to say about (and it does), why be so adamant that everyone conform to a questionable new sweetener that many have misgivings about? Why aggressively go after and silence those who want to use the program, with their own tweaks to it? Must one also eat fat-free Redi-Whip, Dreamfields pasta and denatured whey protein for the program to work? (blech!) No, of course not, and the authors claim no such thing. They are only adamant about defending stevia. Why? Because they falsely believe it to be an integral part of their plan (it's not), so throwing it out would mean having to majorly overhaul their program. Not to mention that they are working on selling their own brand of stevia (ouch).  

Truly, the love of money IS the root of all evil. There is no reason whatsoever to ban any discourse on stevia, and to silence those who attribute their miscarriages and/or infertility to it, while the authors then go on to claim that they have never yet met anyone that put the blame on stevia. They may not have met them personally - but they have heard from scores and scores, and gone on silence them in an attempt to cover up any connection. This is just nefarious, which is why I am going to make such information available on my blog, and actually open the topic up to discourse.




Yes, it is indeed a tedious and time-consuming job to keep deleting all those pesky negative threads that ask about a connection between stevia and miscarriage. They are so common, one could almost make a full-time job of it. You know, because it is absolutely not founded in reality. Or, one could simply allow civil discourse, and for people to walk away having come to their own conclusions.

To claim that the admins do not have time to deal with these sort of topics is simply not true - they don't need to deal with them. Surely, THM readers could just have a thread discussing this without needing someone to hold their hands and play moderator. That would actually be less work for these poor time-constrained martyrs for the cause of public health and trim waistlines. There are plenty of ladies on there who will defend stevia, provide links to all the studies that supposedly support them in this belief, etc. If THM followers en masse will be scared and horrified to hear about a possible connection between stevia and miscarriage, maybe there is truth in it? Or maybe it's such an important topic that we should not be silencing it, as it is raised almost daily? Maybe some of us who call ourselves Christians would choose to err on the side of caution when it comes to the lives of our children, except that this information is intentionally being hidden from us?

Furthermore, to say that the authors have already repeatedly made all this information available is a lie. The book barely touches on it, in passing. I had to search up and down in it to find their brief reference to the safety concerns surrounding stevia, and that in spite of the fact that I own an electronic copy and could search for "stevia" specifically.



We are told that the main THM group on FB has a list of documents, which specifically answer these questions that are being raised repeatedly.


Let's see how that holds up:

(1) The Facebook group is a "closed" group. As such, one must be accepted to join.

(2) As of yesterday, their documents page contained 91 (!) articles. 

(3) After those looking into THM have joined a closed group and waded through 91 articles, they may stumble across the 1 (!!!) that addresses the concerns many have with stevia. I had a hard time finding this article yesterday, in spite of the fact that I knew what I was looking for, and where to find it. Of course, why would someone new to THM be looking for it in the first place, since the book never makes a point to warn them about potential controversies regarding stevia, but rather assures readers that all is fine and dandy.

Please also note that no threads relating to topics covered in the 90 other articles ever get deleted from public discussion, no matter how repetitive they are.

There is one reason, and one alone, why this topic is strictly banned on any official THM page: they don't like it. They want it to go away.

Any reasonable person knows that investigating a matter, and opening it up for discussion, brings MORE light to an issue. If stevia is safe, then investigating its safety will only confirm that. The authors have heard from enough women like myself to know that there is one reason why this issue keeps persistently popping up: it may be true. Even if it isn't, people may feel more comfortable to forgo using stevia, because they are more comfortable erring on the side of caution. And wouldn't that be terrible! They may not buy the book, or their new line of stevia. Let's keep people in the dark, so they will continue to buy our stuff. If we worry them, they might not do so.

This makes me sick, because we are talking about more than just money here. We are talking about the lives of the unborn, and the health of their mothers. The authors should be honest and repent. Instead, they are flustered and defensive, because people bringing this topic up touches a nerve. All I am asking is that they put a big, huge, visible disclaimer on their program that says that some ladies have implicated stevia in their miscarriage and/or infertility, and that there are no available scientific studies establishing the safety of stevia as relating to human reproduction. They have failed to do so, and are refusing to correct this.

In the meantime, I will put myself out there as one that at least brings light to the controversy, allowing people to make their own decisions that they can morally feel most comfortable with.

65 comments:

  1. I appreciate your willingness to share your heart, even though it may go against the grain. You have given me much to consider. I have been following THM for six months now and I have noticed great health benefits and lost weight, even though I was eating a pretty whole foods diet before. I have questioned some of their stances about it being biblical yet eliminating (or discouraging) some very natural, healthy foods. Thank you for encouraging me to do more research and to follow my instincts.
    Blessings.

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    1. Thank you, I am glad to read your comment. My intention is honestly not one of wanting to stir up trouble, but rather to show both sides of this issue and allow people to make their own decisions.

      Delete
  2. I have used stevia for over 15 years (stated before I got married). After marriage I got pregnant right away and continued to use stevia. Have had a total of 3 pregnancies with no miscarriages. I still use stevia and in a way, it helped save my life. I will always use stevia and believe it is totally safe.

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    1. Good to know it works so well for you. I do think it affects different people very differently. Just as homeopathics, accupuncture, etc. work better on some than on others, herbs are a lot more potent for some people than they are for others.

      Delete
    2. By what you just said here, then really if you think about it, nothing is safe and nothing is a given cure since "everything works differently for different people." Just like your claim of "finding the cure of HG". I know for a fact that my HG was not cause by what you have claimed is the only cause of HG.
      Have you researched ALL the MANY causes for miscarriage?

      Delete
    3. Agreed. I think that you (Zsuzanna) are stuck on the idea the stevia is linked to miscarriage and you yourself are not exploring the thousands of other things that can cause miscarriage.

      You are stating that these women should repent-They did not confirm nor deny the link to Stevia and miscarriage. You are being judgmental and it is not your place to do so. I'm disappointed that you are one sided and judging these ladies for doing their due diligence. I like how you picked the one item in there book and tore them to pieces for it. You can say you wish they were more detailed, but you should never tell them to repent for this so called 'lying'. Perhaps that's all of the information that they had at the time. They are not the admins for the THM facebook groups. Your the one getting blocked and are taking it out on Serene and Pearl. This is the most terribly written post I have read and you don't have any back up.

      Matthew 7:
      …2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4"Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?…

      Delete
    4. Also, I like that you were complaining that the facebook groups deleted any negative comments and you have it so you have to approve the posts that are most suited for you. Hypocritical. I hope your blog gets shut down for the shear ignorance and exemplary representation of Christianity presented here.

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  3. Just an FYI, on the first page of screenshots containing comments, the third (beginning with "Thank you") has a name which is not blacked out. Just thought you'd want to know!

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    1. I am not sure which one you are referring to.

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    2. Zsuzsanna, it's the second screenshot total, right after the one that shows someone posted your blog. It starts out with a comment that says 'I am genuinely interested as well.' The third comment down says 'Thank you '. Glad to see you and the babe are doing well enough to engage in this fracas, LOL! God bless you, Pastor Anderson, and the family, Mindy.

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    3. Thank you, Mindy and anon. I finally noticed it, with all your help, and fixed that.

      Delete
  4. The stevia controversy is a real concern to me and my friends following THM. The right thing to do is as you said, put a disclaimer on stevia. There is some 'smoke' to this, so to speak, so let people know this and err on the side of caution, if they so choose. I have lost respect for the authors in this area.
    I ran across something strange last night. I was reading a controversial thread when a comment posted that I knew would be deleted. Immediately, a moderator posted about that comment. I tried 'liking' the first comment and I could not. I could 'like' other comments on the thread and continued trying to 'like' that comment until it was deleted a few minutes later. I was not able to. I have never ran into that before in all of facebook.

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    1. Sad, but typical. :(

      Honestly, I think the program is great, but like you said, this behavior has made me lose all respect for the authors.

      Delete
  5. Looks like they have tried to dismiss these claims before.
    http://www.gwens-nest.com/natural-remedies/stevia-good-or-bad/

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    1. Thank you for the link. With all the concerns she addresses rather sarcastically, she never so much as mentions the infertility or miscarriage debate, which is by far the biggest controversy surrounding stevia.

      Goes back to not wanting to sow those "seeds of fear", I guess.

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  6. "The vast majority of comments confirmed what my post was about"...well you were in an echo chamber of ignorance. What else could happen?

    And the women that responded to you, here and elsewhere, like myself, that they had also had multiple MCs and NEVER used Stevia? You don't think those are important?

    Just show us ONE research paper, it can even be in a rat model since human studies likely wouldn't be ethical. Control group, no Stevia. Study group, fed Stevia. Compare fertility rates. Should be easy for you to find.

    Correlation does not equal causation.

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    1. There are two (older) studies that investigate the effects of stevia on fertility. I know at least one of them was done on rats, though I'm guessing both were. Both studies came to the conclusion that stevia drastically reduces fertility in rats. I have not made reference to these studies because the THM authors love to discredit them, so I know they will not be persuaded by them.

      My point is: show me just ONE research paper, even in a rat model, that shows that stevia does NOT cause infertility and miscarriage. If both previous studies on this topic were flawed and wrongfully vilified stevia, where is the study proving it's safe? Shouldn't the burden of proof be on them to show it's safe, rather than the other way around?

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    2. When YOU are making incredibly bold claims...the burden of proof to back up YOUR statement is on YOU. If you are going to tell women that stevia causes miscarriage you look quite a bit more credible if you don't have to "guess" about the research. The THM authors aren't reading here - your readers (myself 6 years on now) are. Post the articles. You have ranted about mainstream doctors (especially OBs) not practicing evidence based medicine...but you don't want to actually provide evidence for your claims.

      And there's a funny little thing called "research bias" - studies showing a positive correlation are much more likely to be accepted for publication than are studies showing no correlation.

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  7. Zsuzsanna, you're pregnant EVERY OTHER YEAR and you're in your 30s. Of COURSE you've had 2 miscarriages. Do you have an idea how common miscarriages are?

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    1. I have had 4 total, not two. One 3 months after we got married, on the first cycle after coming off BC pills.

      Another one about 5 years into marriage. A fluke, I'm guessing.

      Then no more for 7 more years, until two consecutive ones while (or shortly after) using stevia. Coincidental? Maybe. It would be virtually impossible to prove. But given that my experience is not unique, I will err on the side of caution, and never use stevia again.

      Delete
    2. Coming to the conclusion that stevia is something you wish to avoid is one thing. Using a blanket statement that stevia is evil & saying that certain people are greedy &intentionally covering this danger up--- is irresponsible.

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    3. I know basically nothing about Stevia, and am neither fan nor foe of THM (just trying to find out about it which is how I stumbled across this blog), but I don't feel the author does say that "stevia is evil". She mentions that her MCs and stevia use is anecdotal in her first post, but I felt that she is more concerned with attitudes of the THM authors towards controversy (even if unfounded), and I must say that those attitudes of refusing to allow healthy debate are frightening. It gives a huge blow to thier credibility, which I must say was already concerning me by the lack of citation or even bibliography in their book. They mentions studies and books from various authors occasionally to back up their claims regarding how our bodies store fat/lose fat, with never a shred of evidence. I'm not saying its not there, and it might have added a sixth year to writing the book, but it would give it a lot more credibility in my eyes.

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    4. Miscarriages are not that common for everyone. In my whole family, back two generations, there were only two. Two out of 41 live births. So four miscarriages is a big deal to me. I'm sorry, zsuzsanna, for the pain you suffered. Thank you for this post. And I agree, the burden of proof should be on proving its safety, not the other way around.

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    5. I had 3 miscarriages after starting a different diet (not THM) that advocated stevia. This was after a healthy first pregnancy and live birth. After the miscarriages, and while still using stevia, I did go on to deliver a healthy baby, but my health has suffered dramatically since. This was 4.5 years ago. I'm not able to prove that the miscarriages and suffering health were "caused by" stevia, but couldn't it be the slightest bit possible that stevia may have somehow been involved in my situation even if there have not been any studies to point to for the specific details? It's ok if someone can use stevia without side effects and it's also ok if someone, even for the slightest bit of possibility, decides to not use it. Lori

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  8. I have tried Stevia exactly once with great reservations (I didn't trust it) and hated the taste. So chemically. I don't use any artificial sweetner with the exception of aspartame in diet coke which is a rare occurrence. Does it cause harm? I don't know, none of the evidence I've seen here is more than anecdotal, meaning that there could be a million reasons why something happens. Recall bias is a huge problem when you are studying cause and effect, particularly when there is a negative outcome like a miscarriage. People who've experienced traumatic events tend to "remember" associated events that they worry might have caused the negative outcome. Until someone does a scientific study that can minimize sources of error and bias (you can never eliminate it) the jury is out on Stevia. Could it be harmful. Absolutely. It's a dietary supplement, there are really loose regulations on marketing those in the US. In Europe such supplements have to be tested by the equivalent of the FDA, but in the US you can pretty much sell anything if you call it a supplement, you just can't make any medical claims about it. It's why vitamins and supplements have labeling that says "supports cardiac health" and the like instead of "lowvers blood pressure". Buyer beware and all that.

    On another note, these THM people sound like charlatans, I'd stay away from them. Good old Weight Watchers will do the trick, you don't have to eat any weird foods if you don't want to. Honestly, the bottom line is that any diet that reduces caloric intake and/or increases caloric burn will help one lose weight. Pick something free and easy.

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    1. Aspartame is associated with a whole host of health problems, too many to go into here, but you could try google.

      I am a lifetime WW member, and go there faithfully after each baby to lose the weight, until I get pregnant again. THM is much more effective, and does not interfere with my milk supply (unlike cutting calories). However, there are a lot of us who follow the THM program to lose weight, while going to WW meetings for the personal support.

      And yeah, don't rely on the FDA to keep you safe or healthy, sadly.

      Delete
  9. There is absolutely a difference between Stevia and Truvia. Truvia is a Stevia based sugar alcohol that is almost completely erythritol (http://www.dietitiancassie.com/the-truth-on-truvia/). I have brewed my own stevia extract and it does not even resemble Truvia's sweetness, taste, or affect on my blood sugar. I am now following more of a whole foods diet than frankenfoods, but use a drop or two of my own stevia extract on occasion. Whole foods with natural sugars taste better in my opinion and I never feel guilty sweetening my tea with a tsp or two of pear puree.

    I have never seen a community so combative - a Real Food/Nourshing Traditions dieter could absolutely follow this plan. Freeze your egg yolks in an ice cube tray, swap spaghetti squash for dream fields pasta and honey/fruit puree for the sweeteners.

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    1. You bring up a good point with the fruit purees. Other sweeteners that I have heard the non-stevia THM followers are successfully using are: raw agave nectar, coconut sugar, monk fruit extract, and anything else with a low glycemic index.

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  10. Seems that you are misrepresenting THM. There is no set rule that you MUST accept stevia as a sweetener, while losing weight. There are many women who are sensitive to it, since it is related to ragweed. If someone is concerned enough, about the use of stevia, I would think that looking through a measly 91 files wouldn't be too overwhelming, as opposed to trying to find answers via Google. other sweetners are out there...there is just an understanding that they have to be used, very much, in moderation. and lets face it-- most Americans don't exercise much self control. as a matter of fact here's a direct quote for you:

    The following sweeteners do have glycemic impact, and are not recommended for use during weight loss, nor in significant amounts for maintenance: Sugar, honey, sucanat, agave, maple syrup, fruit juice concentrates, dates/date sugar, palm sugar, coconut sugar, monk fruit, lo-han, nectars, etc. all are in this category.

    Raw honey and coconut sugar can be used in smaller amounts when at goal weight if desired. Children without weight issues can enjoy honey and coconut sugar since they have less insulin resistance than adults and higher metabolic needs.
    OH and another:
    Q:"Can you explain why honey and maple syrup are not acceptable on the plan?"
    THM answers: "Honey and maple syrup are natural sweeteners like stevia so yes we do endorse their use for growing children or for people with very high metabolsims who have trouble putting on weight. Our children use honey all the time. The issue with using it as adult is that we have more insulin resistance so our cells cannot absorb as much glucose as they could when we were younger. Therefore honey and maple syrup fatten most of us up. Let your children eat it though if they do not have weight issues.

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  11. ( my thoughts took too much space for one comment)

    Also, you are very much misrepresenting how the THM page works. While I completely missed the latest stevia controversy, I have SEEN some of the threads that get pulled. When they resort to name calling, debate about personal decisions, and general hatefulness, THAT is when they are pulled. It is a violation of group policy, to have men accessing the board, since its a group for women to share very personal issues--at other posts has your husband read? there's another striking indicator of your character. These screen shots are misleading...it looks like there was a very civil conversation going on...in reality, based on the aftermath, it got VERY VERY nasty.
    Though I'm not a moderator, I'm pretty sure that the reason you were banned is because, though on your blog, you personally insulted the owner of the page, in a very public manner. and you insulted her/them in a horrific manner. You were obviously a member of the group and it wouldn't take long for people to figure out that they had a way to personally contact you through the group, thus allowing more venom to spread throughout the group. and round & round the circle would go. were you a part of the thread that was pulled? maybe you participated in hurling personal insults at people who dared disagree with you? The owners don't want debating going on-- its clearly outlined in those pesky little rules that EVERYONE agrees to follow, when they join the group.
    There seems to be NO scientific study, that you can share, stating that stevia causes miscarriage. there are 1,000,001+ reasons as to why women experience miscarriage. You noted that it seems as though many THM's, who presumably use stevia, have a high percentage of MC...when there is a group of all women (30k+) of COURSE it will appear that way!!! then you tak into account that many of them have deeply prolife views and welcome multiple children...yes the statistics will be "high"...however, when it comes down to it there is no one that can say, with 100%certainty, that stevia causes miscarriages. i have a very dear friend who had a miscarriage several years ago, not using stevia/THM...she has since had 3 more beautiful children...1 while using stevia. another friend who has never heard of THM or stevia and she has experience multiple MC's. The authors have stated, repeatedly, that, based on their research, they are comfortable with using stevia in their homes. and AGAIN, they leave it up to each and every woman to do there own research, outside of the fb group.
    i don't know why i am even bothering to write this, however, you seem bent on creating controversy and sullying the reputation of these women. Perhaps, on some deep level, I am hoping, that if someone else comes across your cute little blog they will read my comments and consider that maybe your accusations aren't as altruistic as you claim. maybe, just maybe, you are attempting to make a name for your cutesy blog, by attacking one of the fastest growing, SUCCESSFUL, "diets" that is out there right now. Have a blessed day

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    1. You also cannot say with 100% certainty that stevia does not cause miscarriages in some women.
      Have you missed the point that the writer of this blog only disagrees with stevia? She speaks highly of the rest of the program.

      Delete
    2. actually, my comment had to be broken into 2 parts. i did say that some women are sensitive to stevia. there is, to my knowledge, no one that can say w/100%certainty that stevia causes miscarriage. no one can say 100% that it doesn't. some people are allergic to peanuts...some people aren't. and respectfully, you must have missed the point in the other post where the author, Zsuzanna, accused the authors of Trim, Healthy, Mama of intentionally covering up the fact (even though it ISN'T fact) that stevia causes miscarrige:
      from this blog 2/24

      The bad: The Frankensweeteners and stevia recommended as "natural" sugar alternatives can cause serious harm, including miscarriage and infertility.

      The ugly: The authors of the book and those running the THM boards on Facebook and elsewhere do not want this information to become public.

      in that post, and this one, she hurls accusations at these women that are ridiculous. i have followed these boards for almost 1 year and have seen the time &caring put forth into helping women work through the plan. no i dont think the authors have everything perfectly- they aren't Jesus. but i have seen enough to know how that board works...and they make every effort to keep it a place peace. like i said before no one can say with 100% certainty that a side affect of stevia could possibly be miscarriage...and to accuse someone of covering that information, just for profits sake? it is one thing to question the diet "plan" but to accuse them of a cover up of such a devastating side-effect is taking things too far...and reflects poorly on this author, in my humble opinion. i will refrain from further observations regarding what i have read around this blog and the somewhat extreme views this lady seems to hold. and i say that as one that would be considered a "bible toting, gun wielding, right-wing conservative homeschooling mama'!!
      ps. i find it curious that Zsuszanna hasn't addressed my comments directly, as she did with the other comments posted yesterday....hmmmmmm....

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  12. Nancy Campbell and the rest of her brood (including the THM women) are not exactly known for their wonderful ethics. ;) Just look at the whole Campbell adoption saga.

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  13. Where is the research that proves the colloidal silver is safe in pregnant women?

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  14. XYLITOL caution - this stuff is extremely toxic to dogs. Like, send them into low blood sugar seizures, and liver failure toxic. I wouldn't use any xylitol products if there was a dog in the house.

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  15. Thank you for this - I too am saddened by their lack of dialogue on genuine concerns. The 'remove and they'll forget' logic seems to be common with them, which is sad: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia?page=1 .

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  16. Ok, especially as Christians we need to be VERY careful with accusations. Stevia might or might be not the reason for your miscarriages, Zsuzsanna. In Germany Stevia is allowed, despite our strict food guidelines and it is sold in supermarkets everywhere. Did not hear about a miscarriage epedemic. If you think Stevia is unhealthy for you, stop using it, but be careful to spread fear, panic and rumours. After all we live in a fallen world, things will never be as perfect as in the garden Eden until Jesus returns.

    You are traumatized through your miscarriage and now you are looking for someone to blame. It could have been providence, ever thought of that? After all, God is souvereign and could have easily prevented it, which He did not. It is impossible to find perfection on this planet in this day and age, do not put your trust in food or a specific lifestyle, instead put your trust in God. It is by the way God who determines when a human being will die, not Stevia or medications or crack or any of that. Plenty of babies are being born to drinking, smoking crack mamas every year. It is Gods decision who may live and who may die.

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  17. You quiverful people need to be careful that this thing does not develop into a fertility cult. For Christians fertility should not be such a big issue as for the Jews in the OT. It was important to build the nation of Israel so that Christ could be born of it. He has been born, so no reason to get all worked up about it anymore.

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  18. Do you honestly not see how similar these tactics are to creationists being asked for proof of creation? Using repetitive, circular information, deleting that which challenges the belief too strongly, and ignoring all requests for proof outside one written text, which cannot be proven by anything other than faith in its honesty, despite having no hard evidence (or even having evidence to the contrary), and no tangible way of testing its claims.

    This is exactly the same argument used when asked to provide evidence of creation, God's existence or anything biblical. "We know it happened because the Bible says it did, and we know the Bible is true, because the Bible says it's true." Honestly, with such circular logic in their core beliefs is it any wonder that the THM crew respond in the same fashion to your questions regarding stevia?

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  19. http://welltellme.com/discuss/index.php?topic=27989.0
    Just like drugs, herbs, food, etc., people react differently to everything. Why would we expect everyone to handle stevia just fine? For some women it appears to cause miscarriages, for many others not. I do not understand why THM authors do not realize this and add a caution to stevia so women are aware of that possiblity, regardless how slim it may be.

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  20. I have been reading the comments in response to Sister Zsusanna's critique of THM. I feel like she was very even handed and raised some valid concerns. The thing I question is who are these Anonymous commenter's. I know that there are valid reasons for commenting in annonymity, but to do such on a review that critiques a dietary plan and a sweetener which may or may not have harmful side effects to women? What do you have to fear in giving your real name Anonymous? What do you have to hide? Are you one of the author's of THM or are you associated with it? I am asking for the following reasons. First, because I detected a little heat and hostility toward Zsuzsanna for voicing her concerns regarding some aspects of THM and Stevia. Second, because I am naturally suspicious of those who comment in anonymity. My belief is if you are passionate enough about something and feel a need to speak out, you should come out of the shadows of anonymity. The truth is I don't have a dog in this fight, I just question people who comment in anonymity, I know many are good God-fearing people who have their reasons for their anonymity, but my experience is that there are also people with hidden agendas, there are also trolls, and just all round mean nasty anti-christian as well. I guess my qustion is anonymous, why are you anonymous? What can Zsuzsanna or the many loyal readers of this blog do to you that you have to hide in anonymity? I am just wondering?

    Chris Monkus, also known as ProudBaptist.
    Let the haters hate

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    Replies
    1. I left my comments as anonymous, simply because my husband prefers I keep as much information private, as possible, due to his line of work. I have attempted to keep my observations related to the topic at hand, THM &stevia. My issue was with the blog authors characterizations that there is a coverup by the women associated w/the book. Nope not a troll. Not one of the authors. I have been following the diet for almost a year, as well as the fb page. I feel as though I have seen enough of the interactions to recognize when someone is not conveying the entire truth about what happened. Not saying that there haven't been deleted posts, people banned from the group, or anything like that. I'm sure those things have happened. But for those measures to be taken, there is more that has taken place, than what has been portrayed here. And I still believe that stating that the authors are well aware of the potential for stevia to cause miscarriage and that they are covering it up-- is irresponsible. There are many products that I can not use because MY BODY reacts differently than the MAJORITY of other people. I hoped that if someone came upon this blog they would read my comments and think twice about her claims

      Delete
    2. Quote " But for those measures to be taken, there is more that has taken place, than what has been portrayed here."

      Can you tell me what more has taken place? I'm very interested in knowing.

      Delete
    3. hi! my point was that the screen shots that were shared here were, most likely, not representative of the entire thread. most of the time, from my observation, a thread has to
      1) knowingly break one of the rules of the page-- one of them being discussing the safety of stevia or 2) the women commenting begin to argue/criticize, in some manner, with one another.
      i rarely see posts that have to be deleted. most of the interaction is very positive and encouraging-- it is a rare thing to find such an atmosphere, especially with such a large number of women from such a wide range of beliefs/lifestyles.
      i DO know, from first hand experience, that when someone posts something and it has to be removed the moderators are very kind and gracious about it. i had posted an article last week, that i hoped would be encouraging, and one of the mods said that since it wasn't specific to implementing THM, she felt it was necessary to remove it. that was that. no drama. end of story. :-)

      Delete
  21. THIS anonymous had never even HEARD of THM before Zsu's posts...so there goes your "insider" theory. How about this option...I don't have any account under any of the available options under "Comment as". I'm not going to get one just to post on Zsu's blog. So I click anonymous.

    I have no problems with critiquing something because it may be harmful to women (for example the recent recent Cornell CDC birth study or Jan Tritten's actions at the Midwifery Today Facebook page), I would just like to see actual scientific data for that rather than "guessing" as Zsu admitted to.

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  22. It appears clear there is just NO EVIDENCE. What? Some women took stevia and miscarried? is that science? How many hundreds of other things were there which could have been causal? Do miscarriages NEVER happen without stevia? They couldn't have just happened?

    Even if we had a huge population study - like for example 2% more miscarriages among stevia users than among non-users - that STILL would totally not prove causality. But, we don't even have that, do we? This is total nonsense.

    What's worse, there are so many "stevia" products and most of them have at least two problems:

    1) The stevia extract has been chemically modified excluding most ingredients and just keep a very few which they somehow deemed the "active" sweetening ingredients - more importantly, this allows their product to be PATENTED which isn't possible with a straight water extract of a natural leaf which people have been doing for eons. And 2) Most of them have only a tiny amount of anything from stevia (because it's so potent) and are mixed with many different fillers.

    There are many actual clinical trials with actual stevia without chemical modification or additives and all are very positive - including some which actually point to stevia being MEDICINAL for diabetics and helpful with blood sugar.

    Go on, hunt for evidence if you think these anecdotes are helpful. Maybe you can get a grant to do a clinical trial. Meanwhile, you are NO WHERE NEAR "err on the side of caution" being helpful or a good idea regarding a natural substance which has been used for thousands of years in South America and for over 30 years - on a huge industrial scald - in Japan WITHOUT ONE SINGLE health problem reported.

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  23. This is not the first time I've heard about the dangers of Stevia and fertility. I read about it years before this book came out. I do remember Serene gave birth very prematurely to one of her babies. Not saying it was Stevia that caused it but it does make you wonder. Stevia is a plant but not all plants are healthy for all people, all of the time. Nothing wrong with questioning it.

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  24. Getting FIRED from a JOB for your political beliefs is not like getting banned from someone's stupid Facebook club. Who cares? Stupid comparison. It's a free country, and you can say what you want and block who you want on your blog, just as others can say what they want and block who they want.

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  25. I honestly know nothing about this diet. Deleting comments is bothersome to me. Everyone deserves to be heard and has different experience to share that someone may benefit from.

    I encourage all mothers to stay far away from Weight Watchers. Calorie restriction in nursing is really bad for the baby. Fat is very important for a developing brain. I am 34 and pregnant with number 4. I have lost all the baby weight each time while eating a Nourishing Traditions diet. And the best part is, I am so well nourished now that this is the first pregnancy that I haven't had all day morning sickness for the first trimester! I credit a truly nutrient dense diet (with lots of ferments too, Zsuzsanna). I think restriction is a bad model for raising our kids. If they see a mom who has a love/ hate relationship with food, this will affect how they view food as adults. There is no magic trick, just eating real food. The GAPS Diet was also hugely helpful for us for 6 months to reset our gut flora. I think a lot of people struggle with weight because gut flora dictates cravings and until you get it into balance, it will sabotage you. Anyway, I just wanted to pass on what has worked for us in hopes that it provides a viable alternative for those interested. And thank The Lord for showing me this path to true health!

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  26. To those that just think they "know" the THM people or blog or FB or whatever so much that you are willing to accuse Zsuzsanna of being a liar, I've got news. And yes, you are saying she's a liar when you claim that the THM people would not ban people, etc. unless there's more to the story. I've seen at least twice here people implying there must be more to the story and there must have been "nastiness" to get deleted or blocked. I guarantee that many of us here really do know Zsuzsanna in a more personal way than you will ever know the THM moderators (unless you are one). She would not take time out of her busy, productive life to tackle the important task of making up lies and wild stories to spread unnecessary fear around. Helping people be informed so they don't unintentionally kill their child...that's something she'd UNSELFISHLY take the time to do. Sorry it's so hard for you to accept her account of what happened, but my news is that it's really not news. Apparently, the THM people have a habit of squashing negative info about Stevia. After she posted this, I went to Amazon to see if there were any bad reviews about the book that were relevant. I looked at 1 star reviews, and there were 2 or 3 that were relevant to the topic, and one specifically mentioned how they got deleted for mentioning a friendly caution about a truvia lawsuit that people may want to check into. No mention about miscarriage or any specifics, just a general "heads up" FYI type of comment for people to look into it if they chose...deleted. So quit the "they're so wonderful, and you must have been nasty to get deleted" garbage. THAT IS THE LIE.

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  27. Whenever I use Truvia I get terrible headaches. I'm not one to get headaches (once a year maybe) and know it was caused by this sweetener. They would come as I ate Truvia sweetened things but when I stopped they would go away. I think it may have been how Truvia is processed rather than the fact that it contains stevia. Using simply pure stevia extract may not have the same side effects.

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  28. This may not qualify as "kindly worded" enough, but I don't care to search my vocabulary for a nicer way of calling people idiots...maybe sarcasm using an antonym??? Yes, that's what I'll do, so...To all you GENIUSES out there who claim to want some kind of scientific proof that a substance may be harmful before abstaining from consumption of it, I can only laugh. I take anecdotes over "studies" any day. It would be laughable if not so shocking that you think the burden of proof falls on the side of proving danger rather than proving safety. You will seriously consume anything marketed to you unless proven dangerous? Yep, you will. People always do until it finally is officially linked to something bad, but then it's too late. Happens time and time again. And idiotic comments make me just wish Zsuzanna would let you all guzzle your aspartame, bc pills, stevia, and whatever the next toxin will be to make it's debut on store shelves or prescriptions. She should just leave you in the dark and let you get what your stupidity earns you. But, no she doesn't do that. Why not, since she's such a hateful person? Because she probably knows that as some choose to be dumb, others are simply unknowingly ignorant and will appreciate information about something they may be consuming. What kind of rational person would not appreciate such information? What kind of rational person would take it personally and get hostile? I know that if I were thinking about consuming an herb, food, etc. regardless of how "natural" or harmless it's claimed to be, I'd GREATLY APPRECIATE someone caring enough to spend their precious and valuable time and energy to inform me about possible effects. The truth isthat rational people don't have a problem with this. Many commenters we're seeing here are obviously not rational people. And they're not fooling anyone. Their arguments are LUDICROUS. And I know many are being informed and appreciating it, despite the insanity being spewed.

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  29. "Money is the root of all evil" - yes!! Before I got to the part where you stated the authors are working on their own Stevia products, I figured that was the issue that was driving this. They want everyone who reads the book to be on board the Stevia train, so that they can sell their own variety! It's sad.

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  30. Some cultures use stiva as birth control! Your are stupid to say that there is no proof!

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  31. i re read the sweetners page, that is mentioned in this review. according to the study, that is so widely quoted for causing infertility, a person would have to consume 7lbs of stevia A DAY, to see the infertility issues that were seen in the mice. do your own research, ladies (and gents). you will find conflicting information about EVERYTHING...butter is good..no butter is bad. almonds are good...almonds are bad, etc. bottom line: research, if you are uncomfortable with your findings then, by all means, do not use a product you aren't sure about. but DON'T accuse others of being money hungry baby killers. ( http://natural-fertility-info.com/does-stevia-cause-infertility.html )

    ReplyDelete
  32. Hello Ms Susanna,

    Good day. I want to come to Arizona for vacation in June and I have been looking for fairly good hotels but I all of the ones I have seen have bad reviews. I am looking for one close to your church. Please help.

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  33. "I was banned because I dared share my experiences with stevia on my own, personal blog, which is not connected to THM in any way, shape, or form."

    I imagine the REAL reason you were banned was because you posted such slanderous statements without any foundation to stand on. I'm sure you received a private message from them as I have when a post had to be deleted. I don't think there is anything wrong with deleting something that is causing too much controversy on your own page. You have your opinion, but I'm sure that the reason you were banned were because of your unfounded accusations of the moderators. How can someone say they like the program and use it themselves but then go and make slanderous statements about the moderators and administrators. Give your opinion of the program, but to pull the moderators into this is just gossip and slander. In my opinion, you do not have that "meek and quiet spirit" that the KJV 1611 says you should have. Maybe your husband needs to pay a little more attention to what his wife is writing on her blog. This is wrong, and it's not Christian like.

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  34. Thank you! My heart and my knowledge of nutrition SCREAMED at me about the 'broken' and processed foods seemingly required by the THM program. Everything I know and believe was against so many aspects of this program; I let my fear of being very overweight and my own desperation outweigh my internal warnings. Like YOU I believe that the basic concepts of the program are good and effective (even if they are NOT new concepts). I also believe that broken foods and MSG (and it's hidden cousins) are harmful.

    I am glad to find your blog and another voice crying out for a whole-food, wholesome, balanced, and achievable alternative to the THM plan as written in the book.

    Again, Thank You.

    AmyDe

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  35. I just stumbled across your blog and posts on stevia/THM. I am a fellow mama of many (8 children) and along the way, pre-THM, had 2 miscarriages. My dh and I have decided our family is complete, but have been using Natural Family Planning (charting) to avoid pregnancy. My returning fertility always follows a pretty similar pattern after a baby. Around a year, my cycles resume and I have about 3 cycles with very short luteal phases and then am pregnant again. However, this time, I am on my 8th cycle with luteal phases way too short to be compatible with pregnancy. I attributed it to getting older, though I thought it was odd, since I am not THAT old, yet. Although I am a big fan of stevia and of THM (I feel great and so does dh -- THM has been fantastic for our whole family), your articles do cause me to wonder if there might be another explanation that I have been unwilling to explore until now. Thank-you for this, mama.

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  36. I rather error by on the safe side of this argument. I have always been worried about the Stevia, though is did not know it came from the ragweed family. I began THM a week or so ago and have been having issues with my allergies and asthma since beginning. I am allergic to Rag Weed. I will continue the plan but staying away from the sweets they offer by way of using stevia. My weight loss my be slower but I am in this for a healthy way of eating over all. Thank you for your blog here. My husband came across it while researching Stevia because he was concerned about any effects it may have on me. Thank you again.

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  37. Thank you for this. I actually left all the groups because I noticed this as well. I have issues with the idea that in order to be a part of the group and follow the plan it is required to use certain ingredients like stevia. Honestly, for a fad-less diet, there are a lot of fads being used. I did lose weight on the plan though and do think the basic concept is right on target. I am trying to get my family back on track after a year and a half of eating SAD. But I have to figure out how to alter it so that it works for my budget, my family, and my health. Thank you for being honest and for posting this. Thank you for not backing down, despite the bullying that is going on. And thank you for not bashing THM in the process.

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  38. I stumbled upon your blog when I searched for THM reviews because I have been on the plan for a month now & wanted to read some critical reviews to get some perspective. I tried Stevia for a few days, but because I have low blood pressure already, I suffered from headaches after using it. Even small amounts made me feel dizzy. I'm using erythritol in place of stevia & sugar, but just the name of it makes me cringe! While I, like you, have seen results with the plan, & the concept of letting your body burn one primary fuel (instead of tandem fueling) is spot on, I really question some of the sisters' advice in the book. I, like you, believe they push products like Stevia because their ulterior motive is money: coconut sugar, honey, & dates may be good for your children but not so for you mama! Here, we will gladly supply your sweet tooth with THM brand stevia, THM brand "fake" peanut butter, THM brand blah, blah, blah. It's kind of irritating. Anyway, all this to say, I appreciate your critical review. Thank you for being honest, & willing to take a beating for truth.

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  39. I just stumbled across this post (and the others) after googling for THM recipes without Stevia. I'm new to the "program" though it's very similar to how I was eating. Minus the endless consumption of tortilla chips (organic! She says defensively). I had no idea Stevia was in the ragweed family. I'm allergic too, so I can only imagine what it would do to my insides. It certainly tastes horrible (IMHO) and is not something I'd ever use, required or otherwise.

    There were a number of things that irked me about the book. Little inconsistencies like refusal to consume pork but recommending natural Armour thyroid (which is derived from ... wait for it ... pigs!), stereotypes of men that do NOT ring true to my husband/family at all, etc. I think they overstepped their expertise. A lot. And the Stevia discussion is just one example.

    That said, I like the concept and I think it makes more sense than straight paleo or atkins or the like. It's unfortunate you weren't allowed to express your thoughts and experience on the FB group. Really, do they get backing from Stevia? Do they own stock? Deleting of comments is just ... weird.

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    Replies
    1. And by way of update... I posted a recipe to the Allergen-Friendly THM FB group (since we're off gluten, soy, egg, dairy, and poultry - what do we eat, right?!?), and I *nearly* got the post deleted because the recipe included a small amount of tapioca starch. Which is not "On Plan." And when I was asked what I subbed the starch with, I said I (horror of horrors) didn't! And that baking without egg, gluten, soy and dairy is hard enough - why make it harder? I got a little talking to from the moderator. It's almost cultish...

      Delete

Your KINDLY WORDED, constructive comments are welcome, whether or not they express a differing opinion. All others will be deleted without second thought.