Tuesday, October 18, 2011

I can't make this stuff up

On my previous post, two readers expressed their doubts about my truthfulness in saying that German textbooks contain what Americans would consider inappropriate content for elementary-age children. To quote myself:

The German books we use have been a funny throwback to the different mindset and culture in Germany. Notwithstanding the fact that all the kids' books are for elementary age or younger, they have so far taught how to ask someone whether they smoke, and how to say that someone is drinking wine or buying beer. Nice sample sentences, eh? 

Hi, my name is Isaac. I am eight years old. What is your name? Do you smoke? This is my Mom. She is buying beer and drinking wine. 
 

I think some of the doubters missed the fact that my little sample paragraph of what Isaac could say was a compilation of phrases my children could have learned from their various books, and put together just like that, as expressed by saying "books" and "they have so far taught how to ..." Obviously, it was a hyperbole to illustrate my point, and did not occur in that form in any single one book. Why would German books have a kid named "Isaac" (English spelling) who happens to be the same age as my son Isaac? I realize now my mistake was assuming all my readers were discerning and intelligent, and for that I apologize.

That post contained pictures that had been altered by me to "dress" a little boy who had appeared in the book nude, twice. So there was no arguing with that point. Just for the record, the book in question was "Werkstatt Deutsch als Zweitsprache B.

In fact, one of the two doubters even admitted in her comment that nudity was commonplace even in children's books in Germany. She said: "We do have pictures of naked kids in kids' textbooks, that's true. That's because over here no one has a problem with that. [...] I don't see why you would be so extremely biased against a country that is, after all, pretty civilized as a whole.

Call me crazy, but I don't think civilized people find it normal to have books with pictures of naked kids. I mean, Michael Jackson did, but he is hardly representative of civilized people.

*****************

So let's move on from there to beer and wine. I will be showing samples below from "Deutsch Ganz Einfach," published by Lük as a German as a second language course for kids in grades 1-6, as well as the workbook for the reader "Lesen, Lachen, Sachen machen", which is a book teaching 1st graders to read.


 Find the correct plural form: "Mrs. Polina drinks two glasses of wine."



Connect to make correct sentences: "Renate drinks a glass of wine."



Color all fields that contain the sound taught on this page (long i sound - "ie"): "Bier" (yes, that's beer in English. It's not like they were scraping the bottom of the barrel for words with this diphthong - there are literally thousands of words they could have picked from.


The kids have another book I remember seeing last week where the family is eating at a restaurant and it talks about Dad drinking a beer, but I could not find it tonight because I don't remember which book it was in (they have a lot of books).

*****************

Next: smoking. Again, a recurring theme. I am drawing on the same books as mentioned above.


"Things I want to do: smoke with Indians"


  
"Things I also do: I smoke." Please note: this is spoken while also drinking a glass of wine. 

 Connect pronouns with correct verb forms: "you smoke"

****************

Finally, for some comic relief, I will add other weird things I have found in the aforementioned books.

 "Mrs. Freese and Mr. Duska like to dance the tango." In case you didn't know, tango isn't a dance that is best executed with someone else's spouse.
"What happens at night: The kids are sleeping. Mrs. Neide is still awake. A mosquito stings Mr. Neide in the arm. A robber hurls a rock through the window. [illustrated to really drive the point home with young kids] The neighbor is watching a movie on TV. She calls the police." Am I the only one who thinks a story such as this might scare some younger students? I mean, it makes it sounds like this is what usually happens at night. Have they ever read "Dial 911 and Die!'?

I do believe these books have an intentional agenda. Many of the children in Germany who would be using these books are children of immigrants, many of which come from Muslim backgrounds. In these cultures, smoking, drinking any alcohol, and nudity are forbidden. I do think in an effort to quickly acclimate these children to German "culture", the books lay these issues on extra thick. 

And with that, dear readers, I rest my case. I am waiting to get that apology for accusing me of lying, but somehow I have a feeling that all I'll get is more explanations for why I am wrong. Because, as you just saw with your own eyes, German school books for young children do not promote smoking, drinking, or nudity. 


48 comments:

  1. I hope I get answer from you, Zsuzsanna. You know, you could enlighten me.

    Yes, I just saw with my own eyes, German school books for young children do not promote smoking, drinking, or nudity.

    All those examples are from everydaylife. Things and situations that are normal and should be treated as such. Yes, drinking to excess is bad. Smart parents teach good values to their kids and their kids grow up using their own brains. So, two glasses of wine : ok vs. being drunk : bad.

    I can't see how funny little story of robbery is harmful to kids. Again, that happens, so why should we shield they from it? And I have seen many kids on your blogfriend's blog's playing with guns. How people explain that to their kids?

    And the naked kids.. Umm.. I fail to see anything bad in there also. Those are normal and natural things kids should learn about. I do think we live in overly sexualised world, but I think in a way you are contributing to that. You making a bid deal out of nothing, meaning there is nothing sexual in genitals per se. The most important sexual human organ is brains and you are feeding these thoughts in there. I don't think healthy kid would start to think "lustful" thoughts on her/his own while seeing body parts.

    Greetings,
    Lisa

    PS. Excuse my language mistakes. I do speak fluently three other languages (Finnish, Swedish, French), but English in not my strongest. I think it's great you are teaching your kids German.

    PS.II. In my home country (Finland) women and men go to sauna together. Without clothers. Gasp and horror. I'm not saying there are never any problems with it, but I have witnessed that healthy, virile men can keep their minds and thoughts in order.

    I heard people in Germany use mixed saunas also, but maybe you have never done that? I know it's not a common activity everywhere in Gemany.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Zsuzsa, I believed you from the get go. You grew up in Germany so to say I don't believe you would be calling you a liar. shameful thing for those commenters to do. I doubt they'll have the guts to apologize.
    From the looks of it though, most Germans are perverts with no sense of decency. I've tried to learn different languages and what amazed me about the german language books was the common mention of beer and wine. I have also heard in the biggest park in Munich there is an area for nude people. No wonder many people in the Anglo-Saxon world have always thought Germans were weirdos! haha, freaks!!

    ReplyDelete
  3. Excellent response! I am always so sorry that a few readers insist on giving you such a hard time... I may not always agree with you but I do have the choice to not read your blog anymore. Others seem to actually be looking for a reason to be mad at you. No need to fight, ladies. Anyway, I hope you never feel the need to turn off the comment option because many readers enjoy being able to leave a message.
    Shelby

    ReplyDelete
  4. Well, if Germany is such an evil country, why then bother to teach German to your kids?

    ReplyDelete
  5. LOL!! I know those aren't meant to be funny but that just cracks me up. It's way different than what we as Americans consider appropriate for our children to learn, for sure!

    ReplyDelete
  6. I think it is wonderful you are teaching your children another language! I wish I had that blessing! It will be a blessing for many generations to come for you all. Miss you!!!

    Love,
    Jessica

    ReplyDelete
  7. Dr. Dennis Cuddy often found incidences of violence in American school reading selections. I believe it is intentional also.

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Cuddy/dennis137.htm

    ReplyDelete
  8. If you spoke German exclusively to your children from birth on up, and your husband spoke to them in English, your older children would be fluent already. It's good that you are teaching your children another language. Maybe they can move to Germany and get jobs. They won't get good jobs here. You and your husband ruined their chances of getting good jobs. The majority of the country holds your family in the same regard as Westboro Baptist Church. Once an employer finds out who they are, they're toast.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Denise you sit in the seat of the scornful, this family is blessed and have the favor of God to depend on, your opinion shows your ignorance.
      Shelly

      Delete
  9. I still don't see the problem with having using an anatomically correct illustration in order to teach anatomical vocabulary. There's nothing shameful about the human body. The only shame comes from lust and I highly doubt that illustration could inspire lust in anyone in your household.

    I'm in nursing school and our textbooks have detailed illustrations of naked adults, teenagers, children, and infants. Such illustrations are useful because in addition to explaining anatomy and physiology, they show developmental differences between age groups which nurses need to be aware of. This is normal. I don't understand why you think that an innocent, non-sexual picture is shameful.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is not appropriate for children to look at nudity, or to be taught to smoke and drink!! It's nice that you visit this blog though, I hope you are here to learn!!

      Delete
  10. Wow it's sad how so many people think nothing is wrong with naked children and drinking.Most of them are not Christians, so they don't think much of morals. If they say that's not true, then their comments didn't make sense. When people saw others naked in the Bible God called it shame. We are not to be going around naked, and yes it does cause lust. When David saw a women taking a shower her lusted after her and it caused sin to happen. If a guy can sit next to a naked women in a sauna and not think anything, he is a homosexual or the women is very ugly. Sorry you can't make me think otherwise. Murder and sex are also things people do every day, should we have those in children's text books too? Learning those things as a nurse, and learning them as a child are two different things. America is also getting that way. In some schools they teach sex education in pre-k - 1st grade!What use does a 5 year old have for that? The parents do NOT have the option for their kids to not go to it. They think they are over the parent. We do live in a sick perverted world. Don't get me started on public schools though, ugh! My child will never set foot in one!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Denise strikes again! I am seriously astonished everytime she comments! Yikes!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Wow. Anyone who thinks that children will not have a problem with nude pictures is naive. The heart is deceitfully wicked. And why would drinking and smoking be considered normal? Ask yourself how many people you know who smoke that have tried or want to quit? And as for alcohol? It is evil. It destroys lives. Yes there are people who can handle a drink or two once in a while, but why take the chance? I can't believe there are people who think promoting this is ok for children. Children deal with enough garbage why add to it?

    ReplyDelete
  13. Denise, why wold zsuzsa's kids want to move to Germany to get a "good" job. they live in the United States, not Turkey.

    ReplyDelete
  14. OK not that many people know them, as to where there kids wouldn't be able to find jobs! Most people I know don't have a clue who the Anderson family is. If you live in AZ you might find more people who know them. Outside of that and people who read these types of blogs, not many people would know or care. Anderson is a very popular name.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Where do you get the idea from that the people dancing tango are someone else's spouse? It just says Herr and Frau - which doesnt say anything at all about their marital status... also they could very well be married to each other and kept their own names... or even if they were married I cant see the problem if they are dancing tango with each other.

    Honestly, you're getting worked up over nothing.

    And you haven't got a clue about life in Germany. Over here, it's totally acceptable to have a drink or two. Alcohol in itself isn't considered "evil" per se. Yes, some people do abuse alcohol, but this doesn't make alcohol in itself evil.

    The section about the boy smoking...
    I find it slightly offensive but for completely other reasons, ie the way they portray the Indian/Native American. If you'd looked closely at that section you would have seen the bit "Das mache ich nicht" (== I don't do that) written underneath - I got the idea that the students are supposed fill in what they are doing and what not. In no way it promotes smoking.

    But apparently, you live in an evil world, surrounded by evil, so even a completely innocent textbook is viewed through your paranoid worldview... I feel sorry for you kids.

    Best regards from Germany,
    Susanne

    ReplyDelete
  16. Sarah et al, people have picketed in front of their church. The SLPC has listed the church as a hate group. According to Mr. Anderson's blog, he lost his major client in his business because of who he is and said he was going to pastor full time. The media does stories on them. It wouldn't take an employer long to find out all about the family. If an employer didn't find out on his own, someone would tell him. Their family is well known. It's not fair to the kids.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Let's get back on subject here: I was accused of making up content in the books. The stuff I said was all there. Let's not switch the argument to whether or not the content is wrong just to detract from the original contention saying such things did or did not exist in German books for kids. I was accused of lying, not of being too prudish.

    Lisa (anon), you are so wrong I won't even waste my time on you. But I do want to point out one of your lies: there is not a single person on my blog roll who has pictures of their kids "playing with guns". Learning to shoot guns is not playing with them. No more than using a pencil to write is playing with a pencil, or using a knife to cut food is playing with a knife.

    Susanne, so you are feeling sorry for my kids because they, unlike 99.9% of kids in America, get to read and learn from the same exact German books as all those lucky, blessed German kids? What gives?

    Denise, I finally figured out why you are always stalking me on this blog. If you are only half as unpleasant in real life as you are in your comments, you must have long ago destroyed any social life you may have had. That would give you lots of spare time to troll here. Yes, "people" have picketed in front of our church. If you would call a couple of tired old hippies and a disgusting lesbian across a 6-lane road a protest. We have probably had one hundred times more new visitors come from the media exposure than "protesters". Who cares what the SLPC says? They would label God a hate group, too. My husband lost a client, as happens a lot in the business world, for all sorts of reasons. Thankfully, there are many more out there, and he has been plenty busy. The media does not do stories on us on an ongoing basis - it's been years. So employers are not allowed to discriminate against anyone, including homos, but it is ok to discriminate against the son of someone who preaches that sodomy is vile and perverted? Wow, that's news to me. Since my husband himself is able to live and support his large family, I am not worried about our kids. There are thousands of people out there who LOVE God, love us, and love what we stand for.

    You must have never been to Germany, where middle-class families live in tiny high-rise apartments and can hardly afford to have one child, and maybe one tiny shoe-box sized car. You should go, you'd fit right in there with all the other tired old grumps.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Zsuzsanna : I'm sorry. My mistake. This Jessica person seems to have deleted her blog and she used to have photos of her kids with guns. Yeah, that might have been a bit strech and I don't even know if you let your kids playing with toy guns.

    I can say that I wasn't lying in other parts. We can disagree on issues, but that doesn't make either of us liar. You can display something intentionally in wrong way, but I'm not at fault at that either.

    For those people who cry that those who disagree with the blogger should not visit the site : I have assumed that some the posts and topics in here are in the range where discussion is even desired. You know.. discussion is sharing thoughts. Thoughts that not always go along with your ways.

    I do realise lot of you base your life and beliefs on bible. There's nothing wrong with that. Feel free. I would say I'm tolerant with you. Just remember; you don't have tolerate intolerance. I mean I tolerate you and you lifestyle, but I don't tolerate you preaching that people should treat differently homosexuals, transgender etc. You know, people have to treat others equally and that is said in law. Law, which you have to obey.

    But you do have to realise that western world is based on democracy and what is taught in public schools is defined by the majority. Majority is not always right, but the vote should respected. Laws are made in democracy by public vote. Yeah, there might come day that rightwing christians are again the majority, but even before that you have to respect the laws made by people with different beliefs.

    I haven't said anything about my beliefs or religion. You probably think I will spend my eternity in hell. Well.. I shall see what happens. But for now we are sharing the same planet. So, please, resbect the democracy.

    - Lisa.

    ReplyDelete
  19. well, I live in Germany, I belong to the "middle class", I own a house (made of stone, not wood), my car is a citroen c8 - a van, and I got 3 kids. We can afford that pretty well, on my salary. Additional to that we get "Kindergeld", that's 175 € (about 250$) per month for each child. So what are you talking about?

    And, to repeat my initial question: If Germany indeed is such an evil country, why bother to teach your kids German? What's the POINT of it?

    ReplyDelete
  20. I would hardly call 100 people from People Against Clergy Who Preach Hate protesting at a love rally "a couple of people." http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/09/06/20090906rally0907.html There are 36 pages of comments. Some people think that God created you and your husband as vessels of dishonor. Don't be deluded into thinking that the thousands of people who subscribe to your husband's YouTube channel support you. Many people just want to be alerted when the next video comes out so they can watch the train wreck.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I do respect Zsuzsannas biblical views on things, but I would also suggest that she meditates on the fruit of the spirit from time to time which is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance. Somehow I have difficulties finding that fruit on this blog.

    Why does Zsuzsa bother to teach German to her children at all? Well, I guess she is planning to send them as missionaries to that evil pagan country with all its socialism, smoking, drunkenness and nakedness.

    ReplyDelete
  22. All this makes this frau want an ice cold bier...

    I'm curious, and it is completely my fault if you mentioned it, but in what year were these language books written?

    God bless,

    Mindy

    ReplyDelete
  23. Dearest Zsuzsanna, Sorry for the delay in replying. I was away in the south of Germany. It goes without saying that it was a VERY uncomfortable drive in our shoebox-sized, eco-friendly car :-) You really crack me up sometimes. The amount of effort and time you invested in trying to defend yourself though just drove home my point even further. I surmise you are discerning and intelligent enough to work out why. Getroffene Hunde bellen...

    ReplyDelete
  24. Denise, you are very foolish if you believe everything the news says. There were 49 people at the "Love rally", as per the reporter on site. We had over 50 in the service that morning, maybe they added the numbers to make it sound more. They were removed from our corner of the intersection by the police. If my life is a train wreck, I sure do enjoy living it.

    Anon who asked about why I teach the kids German - are you really that ignorant? Why do people learn Latin still today? How about these reasons: because learning any new language opens up the world more and trains the mind, because learning a new skill is always worthwhile, because there's such a thing as culture and literature that, while no longer commonplace in current times, is still available for us to enjoy in the form of books and poetry, and lastly because German is the only language my children can communicate in with some of my family. Did I really have to spell all this out? I ignored your question the first time because it was obvious you were just trying to be contentious.

    Lindsay, you have got to be kidding. YOU commented on here saying I was lying. I responded briefly again affirming that what I said was true, and giving further examples. YOU commented that you would not believe unless I specifically listed bibliographic information. I do so and you accuse me of being defensive. Clearly, your mind has been clouded. I guess since you can no longer accuse me of lying, because the content is clearly there (where's the apology, BTW?), you have now resorted to ad hominem attacks on me. Please do not comment further, you're annoying.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Dearest Zsuzsanna, all you have managed to do is provide proof of how you twist things on account of your hatred of Germans. I CANNOT wait for your post on the drunk assembly-line workers. I am attacking? Gee willy whiskers.... you have got to be kidding. "you are so wrong I won't even waste my time on you" was your response to Lisa after she wrote with so much grace and respect. A reaction that can only be likened to that of a cornered cat. Du bist so lustig! Mach weiter....BITTE.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I put my head on a block, you won't publish my previous comment. Tschüss! Schönes Wochenende wünsche ich dir.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Why oh why would you lie about something like that? Seriously, as if smoking and drinking are at the forefront of your mind while blogging. Some people are just insane.

    Furthermore, anyone who thinks that pictures of naked children is acceptable ANYWHERE, is disgusting in my opinion. Children's bodies should be protected from perverts at all costs. This includes cartoon images of children.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Lindsay, will you call me overly defensive if I tell you that I have published all of your comments so far? I even checked the spam folder just to be sure. I do have comment moderation, so sometimes it takes me a while before I go online or check my phone and publish comments. Have a lovely weekend yourself.

    Kimmie, when I run out of stuff to blog about, I just start making stuff up. Then, when I get called on the carpet, I just whip up forged workbooks in Photoshop. It's a secret hobby of mine. Thankfully, I have discerning readers to enlighten the rest of you about my doings.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Lindsay, I think you're having a bad day. I don't think I've heard or seen her say/type that she hated Germans. Maybe I missed that post. I'm pretty sure her family is German. I've only ever heard her say that she hates who God hates. Certainly God doesn't hate all Germans. I would probably not be a reader here if she actually held hatred for all Germans, as my husbands mother and most of his family came here from Germany about 38 years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I skipped the comments after the first few. Let's see...instead of the point this has become a "No matter what is said by this blogger, it is wrong" challenge.

    Do I agree with everything about this blog? LOL nope, nor do I agree with everything anywhere...even in HIS word as I am a sinful person. I work diligently to try to be obedient to His word but I am a failure often.

    As for using props in childrens lessons- let's be rational.

    1. Children are not legally permitted to drink or smoke...so lets keep things age appropriate. If a parent or guardian so wishes to enlighten the child to the vises of man they can do so on their dime and not in text that teach children visually while they learn. Images are powerful for everyone including us OLD folks or commercials that sell cars, makeup, or whatever almost ALWAYS use beautiful-sexy dressed people.

    2. I am always troubled when we blame others for anything. I too have lived in Germany for 4 years while I was in my late 20's. I am the granddaughter of German immigrants and my husband is first generation American...the blaming of religion etc for lack of jobs is pathetic. Sorry. Use your brain instead of your extreme dislike of this blogger. I find the hate of the Jew to be brewing again as we watch the wall street occupation and wonder when you regular mud slingers will ever get-that the object of hate can and often changes in an instant. Hating the Jew first is and has been for a good while spilling to hating ALL Christians. Let it go. This family is NOT why folks do not have jobs. Walmart and the cheap lifestyles we all aspire to have while spending beyond our means is more realistic. You need a wage that cannot be sustained so the company goes where folks live on less. Not too hard to figure out. If you(insert almost all Americans) could learn to buy locally, support small companies and growth in a natural way instead of in a mega SUPERsize way we would have jobs here. Instead the demise of an incredible nation may be in front of all of our eyes.


    3. A blogger sharing about his/her children NEVER opens up to attacks on the children or what the child does. Do we allow a druggie parent to stain the child or do we help the child of a druggie? If you find the parents repugnant connect the dots, the child is still NOT at fault. These children are not to be murmured about...same respect we give to politicians or hollywood actors...freaky awful we may dislike the person but we guard the children. Seems like that courtesy should be utilized here.

    4. My goodness. Leave this teeny tiny corner of the internet if you wish to breed contention and hate so much. You would be more helpful to yourself if you worked out or walked and used this energy in a positive way for your health. Do you hang out at strip clubs if you dislike them? Or a library if you do not read? Or at an opposing sporting stadium if you are not a fan? Get a grip You are not the internet police. Some people actually disagree with blogs in some aspect or another but DELIGHT in seeing such a sweet family and witness cute photos, connect with a woman who chooses to stay at home, and of course to be uplifted as 99 percent of the time this blog is enlightening.

    5. Please forgive me for joining in this as I am not here to comment to cause contention and I really am a lurker and have this blog on my daily read as I have older children that mirror happenings in this home. It is refreshing to see others raise their children how I did.

    Jennifer

    ReplyDelete
  31. Hi Zsuzsanna, I enjoy reading your blog and I'll be honest; I'm getting a kick out of reading the comments lately.
    I know that this isn't really the point, but for what it's worth most people in the WBC family/church ARE well educated and employed including several lawyers (older generation) and register nurses (younger generation).
    Congrats on teaching your children German, I have a lot of respect for people who can master multiple language.
    - Petra S

    (btw: I am in NO WAY defending the WBC, just pointing out a fact. ;-) )

    ReplyDelete
  32. Agree or not you are the coolest woman on the internet! You amaze me with your standing for what you believe and standing for your integrity! You amaze me with your blunt, bold and Biblically correct teaching through your writings. You AMAZE me with you willingness to publish and respond to comments. Seriously woman, you rock! I so wish some other so called bloggers/writers or whatever would take a page out of your book and stand up already although I don't think they are half as strong and deep in their beliefs as you are. It shows in their lack of growth to defend anything.

    Anyway, thank you. Thank you, for being fearless and never to busy to guide the growth of another in Christ. Thank you for standing for all that this country was created to be and not letting others tear you down. Just thank you for being you.

    ReplyDelete
  33. If the liberals have their way...NO, your children won't be able to have a good job. There won't be any and only the their beliefs are going to be held acceptable. Discriminate and segregate. Only this time lets do it according to values, morals and beliefs not skin color. Live and let live BUT work with, live near and associate with those of like minds.

    ReplyDelete
  34. People who see something sick in an innocent illustration of a naked child in a children's book frighten me. If you see that as something sexualized, there is something deeply wrong with you. A child is not going to see it as sexual -- unless they're being abused and have a knowledge beyond their years.

    You generally seem to love your children and be a good parent, but this makes me worry about your poor little ones that depend on you.

    ReplyDelete
  35. anon directly above this comment,

    you have the distinct honor of being declared the stupidest commenter on this thread, and possibly on my entire blog (although Denise and a crazy lady who is willing to murder for her dog are co-competitors).

    Whoever brought up the sexuality point? Not me. Being naked is shameful in and of itself. Depicting children like that who have no concept of worth and value beyond their body is exploiting them. Little kids would not think sexual thoughts about naked adults, either - how about we put them in the school books, too?

    The thing that's wrong with showing kids naked is not the kids - they have no concept of it. It's that there are sick adults who get sexual gratification out of seeing children naked. I obviously have seen every one of our kids naked more times than I can remember, but only as is necessary in caring for them as young children. And just because it was not wrong for me to see them like that, it doesn't mean I put nude pictures of them on the wall for everyone to see.

    You are a pervert. It's a sick world we live in when those who keep their kids safe are considered dangerous for not exposing them to freaks like yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  36. I don't think that being naked is shameful, but still, I think it's something TOTALLY private, and that should never been shown to anyone except a spouse or a parent when you are a child. There is nothing sexual in here, it's just basic intimacy.

    Like Zsuzsanna stated, you don't show pictures of naked adults in books, why is it appropriate with a child ? I'm not as shocked as she is, but still I find it totally inappropriate, and I would never want to use such a book. There is a time to teach a child basic anatomy, and it is up to the parents to decide it, not to a LANGUAGE book.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Kimmie, Zsuzsanna's sentiment towards Germans as a nationality is pretty obvious - hyperboles notwithstanding. I doubt she would argue that. What I find interesting, or rather, difficult to understand, is that you would consider stopping reading her blog if/because she dislikes Germans. Why? Just because she is generalising, doesn't mean she won't have something insightful to say in another post. We all generalise and all come off looking equally silly when we do, but the fact remains, we ALL make generalisations. Of course there are Germans that Zsuzsanna likes, and Germans that she will meet and end up liking. I wouldn't stop reading just because she is guilty of something we all do. She has had some insightful posts about marriage in the past. I would only stop reading a blog on account of something that really goes against my belief system. For example, if it came out that Zsuzsanna was an advocate of the "Pearl" Method. No. 1 - I would be really amazed. I just don't peg her as that kind of parent, and No. 2 - I wouldn't even comment. I would just stop reading because someone who abuses their child(ren) could never be insightful. (By the way, I am not saying I am against a child getting a smack/hiding here and there when needed, but leaving pipes lying around the house, or dangling them around your neck to create fear is a whole different ball game.) I stopped reading a blog about a woman who was very critical about abortion even though she (or her husband, I can't remember anymore) had her/his tubes tied. Double standards don't work for me. I am honestly looking forward to Zsuzsanna's post about the complete drunks on the assembly line, for example. Generalisations can also incite humour. I mean, come on, judging by the number of BMWs, Audis, Mercs and VWs driven the world over, it must mean that Germans are so inherently talented that even completely drunk, they make better cars than their sober counterparts in other countries. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  38. Wow, zsuzsanna, way to spread that Christian love. Stupidest commenter and a pervert? For not seeing a naked child as a sexual object like you did?

    I pity your poor children. I can't even imagine the years of therapy they'll need to overcome the hatred of their bodies which you're instilling in them.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Really Dee? Stupid is such a hateful word? I'm sure everyone has called someone stupid many, many times. If Christians are sweet and nice all the time, they are called fake. The second they say something like stupid, they are hateful, they just can't win. People just hate Christians. Your comment was much more hateful than her calling someone a pervert for thinking it's ok to promote naked children in text books. When you think it's ok to see naked children you are a pervert, that's just a fact. There seems to be a lot of sick people reading this blog, ready to jump on her when she says naked children shouldn't be shown. People are so messed up, the jails wouldn't be full of child molesters if seeing naked children was ok. Funny no one has a answer to the question, if murder and sex are things people do everyday, why is that not ok to put in children's text books? Oh wait, they already see it every day on the tv they are raised on.

    ReplyDelete
  40. It does not really matter if any of us thinks displaying naked children in school books is ok. What matters is what God thinks about it. And He is not very amused according to the book He has written ...

    ReplyDelete
  41. I want to add that it is very naive to think that children are automatically innocent and don't have perverted thoughts.

    I remember when I was a kid I gew up around a mildly troubled neighbourhood. There was this boy, approx. age 12, who molested other children on the playground. My grandmother thanks God taught me not to trust anyone and warned me about him. He approached me as well, but I thanks to my granny I did not let him get close to me and went somewhere else when he tested the ground.

    There was this other boy who was known in the neighbourhood for exposing himself especially in front of girls and women. He was also age 10 - 12. I have read once that sexual abuse is more common with older children being the predators than adults ... Pedophilia manifests at a very early age.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Rebecca, it is naive, in turn, for you to assume that the two boys you mention above weren't sexually assaulted themselves before the ages of 12 and 10, respectively. The behaviours you say they exhibited are textbook symptoms manifested by children who themselves have been sexually molested. Children are born with a natural interest in their own, and other children's, genitalia, i.e. "what's that?" or "why does Bobby have that part when I have this part?" What they are NOT born with is an interest in molesting or exposing themselves to other children. Children don't exhibit that behaviour innately - they are taught it by being abused by adult pedophiles, or by other children who themselves have been abused by adult pedophiles. Pedophilia only manifests itself at an early age if it has been taught to the child. There is no such thing as "natural perversion".

    Kirsten

    ReplyDelete
  43. Kirsten I think you are very naive. For one, we are all born with a sin nature. And two Children could learn that off of the tv with all it's perverted shows or the internet. There are many ways they could learn it. So why promote it in children's text books? Why would we want children to get the idea it is ok to be naked? Then if a perverted stranger tries to get them to take off their cloths, they wont think it is weird. Exposing children is not education. Parents should be the ones teaching them that, not teachers using perverted text books.

    ReplyDelete
  44. WOW! I thought the information you provided on those German textbooks was shocking. But that's nothing compared to the comments involved in this discussion. They're all brainwashed. I am shocked, saddened, and nearly scared out of my mind that these people can't see things for what they are. They actually think child pornography is ok if you label the book "Science" or call it some kind of "textbook" for "education" purposes. This is so disturbing... I am going to pray... for all the commenters who are simply WRONG (I am baffled at why they are here since they hate truth so much) and for Zsuzsanna who chooses to endure such nonsense and actually replies to their garbage. Zsuzsanna, you are right...COMPLETELY right about the whole issue (smoking, drinking, nakedness, etc. in the books), but of course you already knew that and don't need me to confirm that. But I just wanted to back you up here anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  45. As a born again Christian, I can honestly say this shouldn't even be a debate. A book is a book. We had medical dictionaries in the house when I was growing up and they had full frontal nudity - pictures, not illustrations. Using words like beer and wine are not harmful. Destroying your life with beer and wine is harmful. There is no secret agenda trying to be promoted by the authors.

    More often than not, the ones doing the shielding over-sheltering are causing future problems.

    And to those who said it's normal for kids ro molest other kids, IT'S NOT. It's a manifestation of existing or past sexual abuse. Read a book.

    ReplyDelete
  46. I don't believe in judging people as a whole as some of this seems to do, I am not sure how I feel about some of the things that are posted on here about gay and lesbian rights. I am tired of people passing judgement - that is not our job, I believe a higher power has that sole privilege. That being said, I also believe that a parent has the responsibility to raise their children in the best way they can. I also believe that if a single parent can raise children on one income than a two-parent household can afford to have one parent at home, full-time, and I cringe to think of how people live when that is not the case. It is an individual decision to live on less money and more joy, to read books to check out what they are teaching our children before we let our children read them, to make sure that whatever enters their bodies is wholesome, in all ways: visual, mental, and physical. But I don't want to raise children who are closed-minded or who stereotype. I think that is not why we are here. All human life is worthy of attention and a chance. I like this blog for many reasons, I do have to agree with every thing that is posted but I cannot sit and read all these harrassing comments both towards Germans and their homeland and towards our host without saying something.

    ReplyDelete

Your KINDLY WORDED, constructive comments are welcome, whether or not they express a differing opinion. All others will be deleted without second thought.