Friday, August 26, 2011

I homeschool 'cuz I'm lazy

Back in 3rd and 4th grade, I had a teacher that I remember distinctly. He taught our class for all grades except arts/crafts - even P.E. This was at a little country school in Germany. 

My teacher was rather strict. If students acted up, or talked out of turn, he would pull their ears. Like, waaaaay up. Almost-lifting-you-off-your-feet/bottom-up. Not that I ever got my ears pulled for popping off or anything...





He would often tell us about his own school days, back when corporal punishment was still accepted and commonplace in German school. Students would be rapped across their outstretched hands with a wooden yardstick, or have their buttocks paddled, and then be made to kneel in a corner on a thin piece of wood that dug into their knees. He would brag how he never once got punished in all his years in school, except once when the whole class got in trouble for something he had not participated in. 

This teacher had a little saying, and he used it often with me. You see, I was one of two top students of his class in both grades. The other one was a boy, and both the kid and the teacher were always super organized and tidy. They were nerds. I had equally good grades, but it was in spite of my messy backpack and out-of-place supplies. Whenever we had to produce a certain book or paper, it would take me time and digging to find it. The teacher and the other kid would look at each other, and condescendingly inform me that they were lazy because "tidy people are lazy people - they are too lazy to search for everything they need." Boy, how that used to bug me! These days, the teacher would probably get in trouble for showing preference for smarter kids, pulling our ears, and emotionally traumatizing us with stories about his school days.

His little saying, which seemed like mockery at the time, is so true. Along the same lines, I homeschool because I am lazy. 
I am too lazy to...
  • be stuck in traffic twice a day to take my kids to school and pick them up again
  • have to drag the babies out of the house early in the morning and again during naptime to take their siblings to school and pick them up again
  • pack nutritious, balanced school lunches - it's a lot of work to do so just once a week for our field trips
  • clean out dirty backpacks
  • make sure everyone has a clean pair of socks and both shoes early in the morning. Shoes and socks will be the end of me with as many feet as this family has!
  • spend hours and hours trying to find good deals on whatever the "in" clothes are. Our kids think the thrift store is the coolest place in the world for clothes shopping.
  • deal with bad attitudes they pick up from hanging around other punks all day. Not that all kids in public or Christian school are - but all it takes is one bad egg in each class and they will rub their bad behavior off on all other students. And, come on, there are a lot more bad apples than that. Kids who have a single working parent that is never available, and are instead raised by TV and other bad kids, are just going to have a very different set of values than those we are teaching our kids.
  • take the kids to the doctor all the time for the many diseases they are bound to pick up at school
  • spend my evenings going over their homework with them
  • raise my grandbabies when one of our daughters gets knocked up out of wedlock by some jerk
  • carry all the bags into the house myself when I get home from shopping
  • be left to do all the housework by myself all day while the kids are sitting on their rear ends doodling in class, bored stiff. I'm just kidding with this one - having kids at home all day actually makes for a lot more messes. I can't just clean the house for a couple of hours and then enjoy a clean house until the kids get home. As it stands, our house is only tidy and clean between 10 PM and 7 AM. Also, the more people are home, the more stuff breaks at home. Our door locks need to be replaced like every year just from people opening and shutting doors literally hundreds of times per day. That's just one of many examples. But - the kids do help with all the extra work they are creating, and they are learning everything from cooking to doing laundry.
I could go on, but I'll spare you. Our children are a blessing to us, and to not have them around is a loss for us and a disadvantage to them.

You know what my smart little saying is these days? All parents homeschool. Some of us just also have them babysat at a remote location all day long. Because at the end of the day, you will still have to spend hours going over their homework with them, helping them with special assignments, participating in the PTO, and so forth. Those parents who are not involved in their child's education at all almost always raise children who fail academically. The deciding factor of whether or not children succeed in school are the parents/family, not the teacher or the school budget.

52 comments:

  1. Leslie from CalgaryAugust 26, 2011 at 10:18 AM

    I've never commented efore but this is so wrong on so many fronts that I can't believe you and I can think so differently!! Wow!!

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  2. I was trying to talk someone's mother out of forcing her daughter to have an abortion and she was saying that exact same thing-that she wasn't going to raise a baby.. The college/out of high school girls I know who aren't having babies out of wedlock and have a boyfriend are on the pill. I was never on the pill and did not get pregnant before marriage(I was married at 18) but my mother(with me) and sister did. My mother and sister married the baby's father. This also happened to my niece. And it happened to my daughter. My daughter(21) lives at home with her baby(18m.) and her husband-to-be lives with his family nearby. They would marry but they can't get the money together to rent a place. We told our daughter right away that she was NOT giving her baby up for adoption (and they are not living together without being married). They both work. Our family(she has 3 older married brothers-our sons) has all helped her. I agree with everything else you said in this post. A few friends told me that they thought I was the last person who would have a daughter with a baby out of wedlock. We use the KJ Bible and I taught my children that fornication is sin. I once heard one of my sons years ago say "knocked up" and I asked him not to ever say it again. She did not attend church when "with child" but brings the baby to church now. But now I have a beautiful granddaughter who is a lovely light brown. The family adores her. I do understand what you are saying-we need to protect our daughters(and sons). -With Christian love.

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  3. learning can be 24/7, 365 days I guess. And I think it should be more fun than what it has been at times. As a child I remember loving looking at little slides through a microscope at home. In high school I remember really enjoying a Botony class and remember going on a nature walk. On camping trips I remember my dad pointing out different trees and flowers, etc. As an adult, I loved looking at maps, especially when going on vacations--I love learning about new places on the globe, especially around the Oceans, but I like learning about all areas now. I wish I had learned more at a younger age, but I guess I'm thankful that I'm still learning even at my age now......Best young!!, But better late than never, maybe!!?? :)

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  4. different subject, but just wondered what you grew this Summer?? I saw you mention a Fall garden. I thought I saw where you wrote where you had gotten to the flowering stage for the first time. Was that this year or another year? I have tried growing things for the first time. My husband had done a few times before, but this is my first time. I wouldn't call it overly bountiful, but I am impressed I actually grew some things. I planted late for some things, but I thought better late than never, or to have to wait until next year. And, I don't really know how to preserve things. We got tomatoes, okra, two kinds of cucumbers and two kinds of hot peppers, small onions, and carrots. I have some gourds growing for decorations, and I have some melons growing, but it may be too late, BUT I'm not giving up until it frosts!! Some green peppers made it to sprouts, but I think I had too many and started late. Zucchini and yellow squash was probably started too late. We had some lettuce, too. Some cabbage and broccoli and a couple other things got eaten by birds and rabbits in the beginning.......We might try some things for Fall. I would like to do potatoes, garlic and bigger onions, and ginger root sometime, sweet potatoes, too.......I found a site I like on Fbook called An English Country Garden in France. I think she is fairly new to gardening but she seems to do well, and plants artistically, too. I have found some other good sites on FB for growing and even canning. I have tried to grow herbs, too. Like I said, I'm glad I have grown things, but don't consider it a huge success........How did you do, and what do you have planned for the Fall.....Robyn, in North Alabama. I've planted some flowers as well.......It's really interesting to see things grow..........:)

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  5. I agree; a child's success in school depends on the parent. Some homeschool parents do not do a good job; just as some public school situations are not good for the student.
    I am only close to one homeschool family and, sorry to say, the kids are more rude and disrespectful than any children I've ever met. They treat their parents and grandparents with disdain and it is very uncomfortable to be around them. This is not to say that I believe all homeschooled children are like that; just that these parents have not succeeded in raising polite, pleasant children, in my opinion. To me that means they have failed as parents and probably would have failed no matter what education style they chose.
    I am a public school mother and I am tired. I'm tired because our younger child is a senior and I've spent 15 years involved in every aspect of both of my children's education - the PTO, the class parties, the field trips, the parades, the assemblies. It is why I've stayed home all these years and it has been worth every minute.
    Many public school families have put as much prayer and thought into their education choices as homeschool families have. Public school has worked for our family and we've seen much growth and many blessings from our choice. I'm glad homeschool has worked for yours.

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  6. I agree with you to the point that children with good parents learn most of what they need to know from their parents. Schools are supposed to assist, maybe fill in some blanks. At least that's how it was for me and then my kids. Unfettered access to a good library will teach you almost anything.
    Except how to get along with all kinds of people. Obviously in your case you are inocculating you kids first - home schooling and religious training - before you expose them to the world. As peers, not as unsaved souls. And that's fair enough.

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  7. "The deciding factor of whether or not children succeed in school are the parents/family, not the teacher or the school budget."

    This is where you are just wrong. Every patriotic American knows that the answer to every problem is to throw more money at it. The problem with the education system currently is that the mere $9,000 per student annually (or whatever it is now) is simply not enough. /sarcasm

    But yes, if I were a typical American mom I couldn't imagine working all day, coming home, and then looking over all 3 of my school-aged kids' homework.

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  8. I don't think you are lazy at all. And homeschooling is work, too.

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  9. "The deciding factor of whether or not children succeed in school are the parents/family, not the teacher or the school budget."

    Yep!

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  10. Are you kidding? What "in" clothes? I'm in the Mormon Used Clothing Circle at my school. Don't tell my kids.

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  11. Amen, amen and AMEN! This is so right on in so many ways!!! I especially love the part where you discuss having to corrent and deal with bad attitudes that are picked up at school. Sadly, many church nurseries and Sunday Schools produce many of those same attitudes. This is why we keep our children with us in church. What a difference BEING A PARENT makes. :) Thanks for this today...I needed it! :)

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  12. I agree with you about the traffic, as I live a block away from a couple of schools, and in the morning, it's difficult to get out of the neighborhood, and if you're trying to return home when school gets out, it's difficult to get home.

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  13. Look, I am glad that homeschooling works for you and admire that you're taking it on, but please don't slam people who were educated in public school. Plenty of wonderful people have come out of public school, just as some bad kids come from homeschooling environments. Enough with the sniping. It undermines your credibility so much.

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  14. Taryn,

    I was in no wise suggesting that mothers who are pregnant out of wedlock should consider abortion, or even adoption in most cases. I was saying that with the help of God, we are striving to prevent such a situation from even happening.

    anon (Robyn),

    this is the guide I use for all my planting:

    http://www.gardenguy.com/docs/Planting_Calendar.pdf

    We were moderately successful this year. I am still learning a lot.

    Michele,

    good for you! Do they pass on their holy secret underwear?

    http://seattle98.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/178.jpg

    The Canuck,

    I wasn't trying to slam anyone, and even read the whole post again to see where you might have thought I was "sniping". I honestly think homeschooling is less work overall than using public OR Christian school. I am against the concept of school as a whole, not just public school. In fact, if I had to choose between the two, our kids would probably fare much better in a public school. I am not worried about my credibility, though - standing up for what is right is NEVER popular.

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  15. Thanks! I'll look up the planting guide.....Robyn

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  16. I have to admit that this post and these comments scare the heck out of me. I see a serious lack of self esteem here. By you, Zsuzsanna, and by these commenters.

    Get this. If you are doing such a bad parenting job that you are afraid if your kid goes to school or the church nursery, they will suddenly forget everything you've taught them, then you are not doing your job.

    My kids are making the conscious choice to observe how other people act and then not act like brats because I don't allow it. Do they have to be reminded? Well, YEAH. You don't stop parenting just because you send your kid to school.

    The only thing you're doing is taking the choice to behave away from your child by not exposing them how other people live. So, yes, in effect that makes you lazy.

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  17. Michele, I appreciate your concern and your comments, even though I disagree.

    I am not at all afraid that our kids will forget everything we have taught them. The Bible says "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it".

    And, they are exposed to how other people live all the time. We take them out with us when we go into the most disgusting ghettos, and seeing hundreds of beer caps strewn in the yard of the same people whose baby answers the door in nothing but a filthy diaper, the stench, the dirt - it all proves our point that drugs and alcohol will ruin a persons life. It is so much more realistic than the picture painted on TV and billboards of successful, young people in nice clean clothes having fun while partying. The ads don't show the battered wife, or the abused kids, or the vomit and filth everywhere. Living in LV, you probably see first-hand the effects of alcohol and drugs and use them to teach your own children.

    But, little children are like "tender plants grown up in their youth". Just because I won't throw my little kids to the wolves, doesn't mean they won't mature over time. Our goal is for our kids to be mature and (financially and otherwise) be responsible enough to get married and move out as young as age 18, if they so desire. At that point, all "apron strings" would be cut, and they would not answer to us at all.

    In the meantime, we will protect them from peer pressure and bad influences just as I would protect tender plants in my garden from the elements. Will they grow stronger and mature - yes. Do they need nurture and protection? - yes!

    What's funny is that other people accuse me of being reckless because I have been sending our kids into the bank to do transactions since our oldest was like 7. If I only need a couple of things from the store, I send him in with my debit card while I stay in the van and save myself dragging all six kids in the store with me. The oldest two (9 and 8) also know how to mail a package at the post office, and other similar things.

    My point is, I am not overprotective as far as thinking they are incompetent. But I know that the least common denominator in any school is going to be much lower than the standards we hold our kids to, and it would rub off on them. Whether or not I am willing to daily re-adjust their thinking or attitudes, I am not going to allow them to cause irreparable damage that can never be undone. That is not even accounting for all the freaks and perverts that work at schools (ESPECIALLY Christian ones) just to have access to kids, which is actually an even greater danger but I will not go into that because it's not what the post or your comment was about.

    As Christians, we do not want our children have marital relations out of wedlock, or get drunk, or try drugs, or do other similar stupid things. They, too, understand the value of such morals, and agree. It is possible to grow up without having done any of these things - millions of Christians have. Peer pressure can get any one of us to do things we will later regret, so we prefer to not put ourselves into compromising situations in the first place.

    Lastly, the #1 reason we homeschool is because it is commanded in the Bible that we teach our own children. The #2 reason is because we enjoy being with our children, and as it is, time with them is slipping away much faster than we would like it to. Everything else I mentioned ranks below that.

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  18. Zsu, I agree with your last post within a post entirely except for the line that reads, "it is commanded in the Bible that we teach our own children." That is simply untrue, but is used widely by home educators as a reason for home educating.

    Yes, God tells parents to teach their children about Him and spiritual values, but nowhere does He tell parents (especially ones who do not have the ability) to teach their children Mathematics, Science, etc.

    You, yourself, do not teach your children everything. You outsource martial arts, correct? You may already or in the future outsource music classes and other forms of education.

    It is not wrong for parents to outsource academic education. The key to being a successful student lies with parental involvement no matter which form of schooling is chosen. We all know plenty of people who graduated from all 3 common forms who were righteous, well-educated, spiritual people. On the flip side, we all know people from all 3 common forms who were perverse, poorly educated, atheists/agnostics. Your method is not a one size fits all.

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  19. The world is really not that scary. You'd probably love sending your kids to school with mine.

    Have you ever read this blog?

    http://ayoungmomsmusings.blogspot.com/

    This is a girl who grew up in a fundamentalist, homeschooling home and was brainwashed from day one. Now look at her in her twenties. She was "trained up". It looks like her sister is no better off than her. Mind control is a scary, bad thing because we are all born with free will and try as you might, you can't take that away. I actually cannot stop reading it. I keep hitting "older posts" in my downtime.

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  20. @ Bakershalfdozen:

    Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

    This sounds nothing like having the kids in the care of others from 7:30 am to 4:30 pm. You can't call it "outsourcing" when your children spend more waking hours in the care of others - sounds like they are outsourcing dinner and bedtimes to you.

    We may have to agree to disagree on this issue. Even though we can't both be right, one of us is, and we both think it's us. I in no way feel attacked, threatened, or angered when you suggest using schools is the better way to go. You need not feel that way about my opinion, either.

    Michele,

    you still have down time? Wow! I will not even go into that blog, but rest assured, I know plenty of similar cases from first-hand experience. We do not raise our children in such a manner, i.e. isolating them from the world entirely, "patriarchy", etc. We just teach them unapologetically what is truth based on the Bible. And, for every person like that, there are ten like me who grew up in non-Christian homes, who wish their parents hadn't divorced, aborted their younger siblings, and allow them to be abused by perverts.

    I was surprised to have you call this a cliche term like "mind control". Teaching truth is not mind control. Saying "the sky is blue" is not mind control, because it is true. So is the Bible. You presumably do not believe this, and that is your prerogative.

    You teach your children values, too, such as "murder is wrong". We just have higher standards, such as "fornication is wrong". If you find that shocking, please consider that this used to be common belief even just one generation ago, much to the betterment of families and society in general. Every normal man on the face of this earth wishes he were getting married to a virgin on his wedding day, and vice versa. Nobody is more attracted to someone the more they have been around the block. No normal Dad wants his daughter pawed over by a jerk who wants nothing but physical gratification from her.

    Our daughters are free to pursue whatever education and career path they desire when they grow up, as are our sons. As adults, it will be their responsibility, not ours. Hopefully, they will have come to understand that God's plan is the best calling for their lives, and will lead to the greatest degree of satisfaction and blessings.

    I don't think it takes a genius to see that our life is much more enjoyable than that of a single working mother who has a few unruly kids from all different husbands, all of which disrespect her and will grow up to perpetuate the cycle of being a deadbeat. Even our young children are smart enough to realize how good they have it, and hopefully we will equip them with the character to provide their children with the same some day.

    And, I'm sure our kids would love playing with yours - they do seem like they have a lot in common. But surely you know most kids in school are not like that? Tell you what, if you are ever down this way, we'd love to get together on a play date. At a neutral place, of course! ;)

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    1. You say many of these things as if they are reality- as real as the "sky being blue". Truth is, most good science students know that the sky isn't blue. In fact, there are no colors in the world- they only exist in our minds. The subjective experience of "blue" is an interpretation of our own minds to a certain electromagnetic frequency. Moreover, depending on context, the very same frequency will be interpreted as another color. "Reality" is not as comfortably clear cut as you might like to believe it is.

      I highlight this in the hope that it encourages some personal reflection on the so called "facts" that you hold near and dear as truth. Two of the foibles that naturally smart people can sometimes engage in is: (1) a lack of critical thinking resulting in an unerring conviction in their own correctness; and (2) a tendency to convey these falsehoods to other people which much success. No doubt about it- you are a naturally, very smart person.

      Indeed, some of the greatest evils in the world were perpetrated by above average IQ people who had a conviction in their own correctness. One only has to think of Hitler and his evil reign of murder. Can you believe that? He actually advocated for the murder of certain types of people and his powers of rationalization had him think it was a good idea! What a shame he did not have a smart, critical thinking wife to set him straight.

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  21. Zsu, what is the "them" that verse is talking about?

    BTW, I home educate my children but not because of that verse. It has nothing at all to do with Math, Science and Language.

    I home educate because I believe I can give them a better education in a better environment than the public schools in my area. I would choose a quality Christian school any day over home educating but they are very expensive.

    Also, Paul writes about schoolmasters and tutors w/o condemning parents for not teaching the children themselves.

    This is my biggest beef with you. You are highly intelligent and educated and you give tons of good info on large families, cooking, parenting, health, etc. But your hermeneutics are sadly lacking. You can't take a verse like Deut. 6:7 and make it a proof text for home education. It just isn't in the text.

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  22. All I can say is Amen, Zsuzsanna! Great post and follow up replies.

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  23. I think Deut.6:6-7 does apply. As Christian Home educators we teach our children how Scripture applies to every academic subject. That is why I use the KJ Bible with every subject and why I use books that use KJ Bible Scriptures. I don't use secular books for science,history/geography, writing and grammar, spelling, penmanship, reading, art,music,health/PE,etc. I mostly use Abeka(KJ), Rod and Staff(KJ),etc. Even when we used MCP math through Christian Liberty Press when we weren't using Abeka math we used Christian literature about math we received from Rod and Staff,etc. Christian schools are over-rated. We had our oldest son in two Christian high schools. Before that experience I thought I home educated because we couldn't afford Christian school. I have read Home Educating with Confidence by the Boyers, No Regrets about the Swann family,Mary Pride's books, the Duggars' books, Public Education Against America,etc. and they all include that Scripture. If I used secular books I may agree that Deut.6 does not apply.

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  24. Hi, I don't often chime in but thought I would on this post. You seem to spend so much time defending your position on so many things, I really wonder if it is a sign of a very low self esteem.
    I believe how one chooses to educate their children is up to them. I have raised 3 children to adulthood and have found that teaching them to make their own choices and live with the consequences is really the wisest course of action. Just on a side note putting a link on your blog to people in their underwear is really sad and in very poor taste.... that would be like your readers taking a poll on what type of underwear you and your husband wear... so sad and a waste of time... Hope you have a great day

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  25. Deu 6:4-9 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And THESE WORDS, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach THEM diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of THEM when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind THEM for a sign upon thine hand, and THEY shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. And thou shalt write THEM upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates. (Emphasis mine)

    I don't care if you home school. I home school. What I care very much about is ripping a passage OUT of its context and using as a proof text for something you do, don't do, or believe someone else should do or don't do. That is how cults get started.

    That passage contains the 2 greatest commandments of which Jesus spoke. They were given to the Israelites who were told to teach them to their children and talk about them all the time and keep them ever in their minds and hearts.

    It really isn't talking about home schooling.

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  26. I see that you had to leave Europe in order to become a "member" of that special brand of Christianity only found in the US. No truly progressive country has re-invented religion as much as the born-again Christians in America. Your children are obviously fed, clothed and cared for as well as you feel is necessary. Hopefully they get the chance to spread their wings and open their minds as they mature.

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  27. My first crazed thought, upon reading through the list was: You've got a 'secret' child that's pregnant? Where in Arizona do I need to go to 'talk some sense' into that guy? But I figured if this WAS the case, your husband would have taken care of that end of business! Haha! ;)

    Remember the 'horror neighbors' story, one of Zsuzsanna's most popular posts? There are some things that matter (your children being fed and clothed and having a roof over their heads, and, most of all, in my opinion, a moral code for living--and yes, they're going to mess up sometimes) and others--such as wanting a t-shirt that costs $40.00US and a perfect, manicured yard.

    It's about priorities--this isn't a perfect world, and we all do our best to get through it, day by day, and hope to raise our children up, day by day, to do the right and moral thing, no matter how they happened to be raised.

    God Bless you, Dad, and the six,

    Mindy

    And to Anonymous on 28-8 at 11:36: She left Europe for a man she loved and had married. I can't think of a better reason.


    ((Don't post this, but I wanted to tell you I received the game! Don't worry about the note! I was actually getting a package ready about the Cincinnati Zoo before you even started the contest, so I'll be in touch!))

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  28. If one reads books like The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto, The Harsh Truth about Public Schools by Bruce Shortt,etc. you start to agree with people like James Dobson who said Christians should take their children out of the government schools. I do not agree with him on most things and have the book,Little Known Facts about Focus on the Family by Cathy Burns(available at libertytothecaptives.net). I home educated but put 3 of my children in public high school. They didn't take the bus but walked across the street. I would never put my child on a school bus because I remember the bullying that went on in my Catholic and public high school buses. I Don't Care What Others Do- but I am educating and encouraging my grown children on the subject because I am concerned about our grandchildren. Long Island high schools have heroin problems,etc. My grown children agree with me-the youngest is 18(he home educated through 12th grade and if I could do it over they all would-and my children were good students). Most people get the impression of Bible Christians from the tv. Most Bible Christians I know disagree with the "Christian" tv celebrities. I call it American-tv Christianity. There are some New Testament Christians that don't use the Old Testament at all. They only have New Testaments in their homes. It seems that whenever I quote from the Old Testament that is when people say -"out of context".

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  29. Wow. You are so wrong in so many ways. To assume that the outside world would corrupt your children is incredibly naive. If your children are taught the difference between right and wrong at home, I would assume they would know the difference between right and wrong outside of the home, as well. If you are doing your job as a parent, then you should be confident that your children will do what is best. It sounds to be like you have a bit of self doubt about yourself as a parent because you feel the need to justify what you are doing and by doing this, you come across as judgemental and self-righteous. How about this? You do what works for you and let others do what works for them. Stop judging others if you do not want to be judged.

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  30. You obviously feel like you are doing what is best for your family. Good for you. However, I have a problem with the way you seem to be casting judgement on others who chose to send their children to public/private school. Your way is the best way for you but that doesn't mean it's the best way.

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  31. I'm sure you think you are doing what is best for your family but you must realize that other people don't agree with your philosophies. I, for one, think you are actually doing your children a diservice by sheltering them from the real world, the good and the bad parts. There is so much that can be gained from other people who are of different races, religions, and cultures. Exposing them to dfferent places and experiences and people will only make the children more well rounded. In the real world, home schooled kids tend to be lacking socially when outside of their little bubble. Keep that in consideration.

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  32. I have belonged to a large homeschool support group in South Florida and a large homeschool co-op on Long Island and have Never seen home educated children that are lacking socially. Our youngest son who homeschooled through high school has many neighborhood friends and now that he works he has coworkers that are friends. When I homeschooled our 3 sons in South Florida most of the neighborhood children were at our house most of the time and our sons had church friends, homeschool friends and cousins. I was a good student when I attended school but age-segregated institutionalized schooling is meant for indoctrination purposes(who's really doing the sheltering?). That judging Scripture is taken out of context-that's not what it means or we wouldn't have a judicial system. It means do not judge someone's sin if you have the same sin(adulterers shouldn't judge adulterers). I only had to study history( have my children attend today's schools and talk to teachers) to change my mind about government schooling(and Christian schools-especially the ones that use secular books at high school level).

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  33. There is a home-education magazine in the children's section of a few libraries here on Long Island. It isn't published by Christians (like Practical Homeschooling is-Mary Pride- home-school.com,etc.) but it is interesting. There are articles and letters by pagans(that's what they call themselves),Druids, Wiccans,etc. that home educate their children and have educated themselves on the government school system. Some have read John Taylor Gatto's (and others')books(Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling,etc.).

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  34. Calling a child a punk is absolutely unChristian. But then, most of us have already figured out that you and your husband really don't know the Word of God.

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  35. I guess you were just trying to make a point, but you stretch things when you imply your daughter would get "knocked up" in public school. I went to public school and was not raised up King James, and I never got "knocked up". None of my close friends ever got "knocked up" either and they were not on birth control either and I doubt they were King James, and I know none of them were IFB. You went to public school and you never got "knocked up" either did you.......unless you just don't mention things you did before you were saved?? The King James Only obviously didn't help Taryn's daughter (no outright disrespect intend, Taryn) Also, if I was the hypothetical woman you have mentioned before--single, unmarried with kids by many different fathers....I think you may have labeled her as a whore or something in another post (how did you word that). Even if I were that woman in those circumstances, if I knew you were talking about me like that, I don't even think I would want or let you in my house. You reminded me of Westboro Baptist Church when you spoke like that, either that or Ayan Rand. You answered someone that you thought Westboro was horrible. I see differences with your family/church and theirs, but there are also similarities, especially when you talk about people like this. Taken to extremes it becomes a little frightening.......like the guys on your husband's FB page who seem to get excited about the thought of setting gay people on fire with a tire...........yep!! Fred Phelps!!!!!!!!!! Robyn

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  36. Also, I went to the Free Jinger site to see what the stink was about. The first post was about a woman who just used the Bible to teach and no textbooks. I think she made comments about the earth being flat and the sun rising and falling????? Hopefully, they misquoted her. Many things people do are crazy, but when people who claim to be Christians and have all truth talk and act crazy like this woman's comments, no wonder other people want to laugh......Robyn

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  37. I don't expect this to get posted, but I had to laugh...

    "It seems that whenever I quote from the Old Testament that is when people say -"out of context"." {Taryn}

    "That judging Scripture is taken out of context-that's not what it means or we wouldn't have a judicial system." {Taryn}

    Taryn, you're absolutely right. The "Judge not" Scripture is overused, abused, quoted out of context, and misapplied so many times. When one reads the surrounding passage, it is obvious that Jesus doesn't want us to judge hypocritically. It doesn't mean He doesn't want us to judge others at all.

    So quote the O.T. all you want, Taryn, but don't tell other people it is saying one thing when it is really saying another. That is adding to and/or changing God's Word.

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  38. I read two of Ayn Rand's books(interviews,etc.) and we do not sound like her. After speaking with a few friends on this subject we agree that some couples should be encouraged to get married as young as 18 and not encouraged(by their parents) to go to college. They end up leaving college due to pregnancy and needing money so they increase their work hours and are too tired to do their college work. I think if more parents prayed about it then fornication -due to marriage being delayed(which is encouraged by our society) would not happen.I am not IFB but attend a Baptist church.- We parents who listen to society are to blame.- I read a story once in a Christian magazine about a young girl who was married at 17. This couple spoke with their parents who were against marriage that young. Both parents changed their minds. I was upset by this story but no longer am. The daughter and her mother were eventually "with child" at the same time. I was married at 18 and had a son 10 months later. I gave up a free college education and do not regret it.

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  39. In the Duggars' first book-page27- it says they were married(in July) after Michelle graduated high school at 17. She turned 18 in September. Her husband had graduated the year before and had just turned 19 when they married. My husband was 20 and our 3 sons were married around that age(in their twenties). I am no longer a fan of waiting until after college.

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  40. You are the kind of Christian that drives me nuts. You give other Christians a bad reputation. I am a Christian but I don't like being lumped in the same category as you. I believe in loving others, not casting judgements and forming preconceived notions on anyone that is different. You are so judgemental. You assume so many things about so many different groups of people and your gross generalizations drive me bonkers.

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  41. Although I don't agree with everything you say or do, I am thankful to God that there are Christians (like you) who do stand up for what you believe God is saying. Too many of us are willing to compromise with the world and are afraid of upsetting others.
    I teach our children at home and I do agree with a lot of the things you have said, regarding how sending children to school can make extra work. But I also think home-schooling is pretty tough!
    To those who think that children will not be corrupted if they go to school - you are so wrong! My daughter tried school for 8 months and it was a nightmare. Her personality changed completely - she was rebellious, she was miserable, she developed nervous problems, the list goes on. In addition, she wasn't learning half as much and lost all interest in any kind of learning (including things such as learning to play guitar). Before she went, she was not a Christian, but she was not an atheist either. She had not made any decision. Then after a couple of months at school, she was strongly opposed to Christianity, quoting me things that different teachers had said - and these things were not just said in Religious Education, by a Muslim teacher, but in English and other classes. I have never pushed my daughter into anything but clearly pupils and teachers in school constantly put pressure on kids to live in a worldly way and speak and behave in ways that oppose God. So who is doing the brainwashing now? In the end, my daughter made her own decision to return to home-schooling when her eyes were opened to how nasty some people really are. Thank God for that and I would much rather the extra work involved in home-schooling than that of sending children to school!
    In my opinion, how well a child does at school depends mostly on the child, whether they are willing to learn or not, and how strong they are as an individual against peer pressure. Unfortunately, I don't think you can tell these things about a child until they are put in that situation and then it could go either way. Personally, I don't think it's worth the risk.
    Keep up the good work!

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  42. Generalizations on both sides make the homeschool/public school debate so ugly.

    I've seen homeschooled children "corrupted." For instance, the young Christian homeschooled teen girl we know who just moved out of her parents' home so she could raise her out of wedlock baby alone, with no father. This is disappointing for all involved but nobody can blame the public school system for this one. And, yes, the father is from a Christian homeschooling family as well. Kids succeed and fail in life; life creeps in and makes them stumble no matter their educational circumstances.

    As for the anonymous "worm shit" comment: wow. Just wow. I just wish everybody had the nerve to sign their name and leave a link for their own website or blog. Anonymous basically means somebody wants to creep in under the cover of darkness, take a pot shot, and run away before anybody catches them. Of course Zsuszanna has some controversial blog posts but her name is right there and everybody knows how to respond to them.

    And "worm shit?" Geesh, the vocabulary does nothing to lend credibility to your views.

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  43. HW and others,

    my apologies for publishing a comment that contained an expletive. It is my general rule to never to so - this was purely accidental.

    I agree that this debate gets ugly really fast. My point more clearly is this:

    There are two factors who will mostly determine how a child turns out: a. the home life b. the company they keep

    This leads to different possible scenarios: great family, protected influences; great family, exposed to bad influences; uninvolved to lame to evil family that isolates their kids, or bad parents who allow their kids to be in the company of other bad people.

    It is possible to send kids off to school (public or private) and have them turn out right if the family is strong and right. It is possible to homeschool and turn out kids who go off the deep end if the parents are freaks. I have seen both.

    But it does not change the fact that the greatest chance of children turning out right is to have a RIGHT home, and RIGHT influences. We want what is best for our children, and have chosen this path.

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  44. I actually thought it was kind of neat that you posted that disgusting comment. It really shows most "anonymous" commenters in their true light and it allows us to fire back. No apology necessary on your end.

    I so agree with you on the school issue. You have chosen what is best for your family and we have chosen what we believe to be best for ours. Our children are 20 and 17 and I feel good about our choices thus far. It is about family and involvement. It is about not being afraid to tell your kids "NO." It is about establishing a true parental role in the home whether they go off to school or stay home for school. As I've said before, I am EXHAUSTED from all my involvement in the school years but it is what we chose and it's been worth every moment. And it's why I haven't worked outside the home for the past 20 years. It's gone extremely fast too. There are good and bad points to all educational choices; it just happens to be one of those topics that sets people off.

    I like what you write at the end of your comment: It is about having a RIGHT home and RIGHT influences. So true.

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  45. Dear Zsuszanna,
    I think you've summed it up perfectly by saying: the greatest chance of children turning out right is to have a RIGHT home, and RIGHT influences. We want what is best for our children, and have chosen this path.
    I also think you are a wonderful example of a good wife and mother, doing what (in your view)is best for your family.
    HW, my reason for choosing to be anon is because I'm not too comfortable exposing myself all over the net. I'd happily reveal my identity to Zsuszanna privately though.

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  46. Anonymous at 11:28; I get your point. It is one thing to make positive and respectful comments and yet be uncomfortable to leave your name. One can even disagree in a respectful way, which is what makes many blogs so interesting to follow - the dialogue and the many viewpoints expressed.
    It is the "anonymous" commenters who leave offensive remarks and then run for cover that bother me and, I believe, most bloggers.

    But, I stand corrected, in that I made a generalization about the whole "anonymous" population and that is the one topic that I was speaking out against. My apologies to all who comment POLITELY while choosing to remain private.

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  47. The land taxes here on Long Island are very high. As a result many homes have apartments that they rent out-the house across the street from us and the houses on either side of us,etc. The rents are very high. Each of our 3 sons and their wives lived in one of these apartments before they became homeowners(with family help). If I could do it all over we would have had a house with an apartment so they lived with us instead of strangers. -THEN our daughter would have been married at 19 when they wanted to be married and able to move in with us(and her marriage would not have been delayed).- It is also not easy working with 3 sets of our children's in-laws and my daughter's future in-laws regarding the children-and grandchildren. I am happy that our oldest daughter-in-law will be home educating our oldest granddaughter(4) and was at our church talking with the homeschoolers(She was not homeschooled. She was brought to church by her neighbor's family as an older child). -Please remember our future son-in-law in prayer. He very much wants to be married. We have talked about "jumping over the broom" as part of the wedding vows/ceremony. Everytime he gets the rent money together he has car problems.

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  48. While I admire you for having the patience to homeschool while raising 6 small children (it can't be easy)....I hope you are not teaching your children to be as judgmental as you.

    God gives us as Christians a humble heart. He expects us to love others, not act the way you are acting. I would be ashamed of my pastor's wife if I knew she had as cruel a heart as you.

    I recently found your blog through a link and I read some today and some yesterday. Enough to know that you are not projecting God's love and wisdon with your blog, but rather, showing how judgmental and holier-than-thou you are. People who behave that way give Christians a bad rap.

    I pray that God will somehow convince you to be more humble and loving.


    FTR, I am a Christian. I have 4 children, 3 of whom are school age. They attend public school. They are not 'problem kids'. They all get honor roll, and I've never had even ONE of them in trouble at school. I have been told time and time again what polite, sweet, smart children I have, by their teachers.

    Guess I'm doing something right. Most importantly, I teach them to love other people the same way that Jesus loves them.

    I think you're missing that.

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  49. Those christians who do not homeschool although they are legally allowed to do it, are lacking spiritual discernment. Aren't you guys aware of what blasphemous stuff children learn at school nowadays? Here in Germany they have yoga classes now at public schools!!! And than all this talk about "mother earth", "becoming one world without borders", religious tolerance, accepting homosexuality as normal, etc. All of this is the exact opposite of what the bible teaches! Do you really want your child to be taught that homosexuality and abortion are normal? Isn't it very difficult for a child to understand that at school the teacher - who is an authority figure - says that being a Lesbian is ok or sex outside marriage is ok, and then at home and in church it gets to hear something completely different? Isn't this really confusing for a child?


    Do not be deceived. Schools have an agenda. Through specific teaching techniques they are trying to challenge the child to question the traditions/values it received from mum and dad. And then you are surprised that child comes out rebellious? Please educate yourself of the goals the school of your child follows and then compare it with the teachings of the bible. Go to the website of your childs school and read what they want to achieve. Ask the teachers how they want to form the personality of your child. They are usually pretty open about this stuff.

    Great link for german speakers:

    http://bravenewschools.wordpress.com/

    Are there students who come out fine out of the public school system? Yes, I for example. But that is despite of school, not because of school. Just as there are true believers who come out of catholic church. That is despite the teachings of that church. It is just because of the grace of God who at some stage intervened. But are we to try God?

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  50. I so agree with Rebecca A.I think it is amazing how some people think it is "judgemental" to adhere to what we are led to do. I was so ignorant about the spiritual aspect of homeschooling my kids, I thought public school was mandatory, and that we couldn't homeschool, or we'd be truant. I had no idea about homeschooling, what to do, or how to do it. Plus, I worked outside the home because my husband insisted. My family and homelife was chaos and I was deeply unhappy. One day, The Holy Spirit led me to homeschool the kids. I was surprised that He wanted me to do that. And then, while I was at work, I distinctly heard The Holy Spirit say to me, "Go home". I obeyed The Lord in spite of my husband's tirade. Now everything finally feels right! It's like I took my family back! My Christian parents and siblings looked down on me for doing it. My father, who is a Baptist pastor, actually came to my house on the first day of school to ask me why was I homeschooling,on the first day of public school. How dare I take the kids out of school! My own brother took my daughter aside and whispered to her "If you want to go back to school, just let me know, and I'll fix it so your mother will be overruled." My own mother thinks I am judgemental, and Holier Than Thou because I homeschool. Of course, she does, she worked outside the home my entire life teaching art in public school! So, I say all that to say this: You will be persecuted for doing what The Lord has told you to do. The world will hate you, because it first hated Him. I am considered judgemental because I think mothers should stay home, instead of putting their children in public schools and daycare centers, and that The Lord will hold us accountable if we don't teach our children God's laws, and shelter them from public indoctrination, and worldly mindsets.

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  51. Hi,
    I've only just come across your blog and started reading this, there are some interesting viewpoints although I disagree with many of them.
    I agree with your statement "There are two factors who will mostly determine how a child turns out: a. the home life b. the company they keep" but think that there's another side to it that hasn't been discussed here. Also, Rebecca, I find the comment that Christian parents who choose not to homeschool are lacking spiritual discernment extremely judgmental and offensive =(
    My story is thus: I was raised by athiest parents and attended public school. I did not "get knocked up", in fact I have only ever been intimate with my husband, who I married when I finished my university studies at 21. 4 months ago God blessed us with a beautiful little boy, Malachi, who I stay at home to raise while my husband works as a public school teacher "raising other people's kids". In all of this, you may be wondering how I maintained my morality and found God despite my upbringing, or why my husband (and I, before having my son) chose to be a teacher. Well, I came to faith while in high school, when God used a wonderful friend to teach me about Christianity. My husband similarly did not have Christian parents but was reached by God while pursuing his education outside the home. He and I were one of four Christian teachers at the public school where he works, and the students know that we are Christians and have begun to confide in him and ask him questions of faith. If every Christian parent chose to homeschool, I would never have met my friend and it would have been a lot harder for God to be in my life today. If every Christian parent chose to homeschool, she and I would not have had the opportunity to share our faith with other non-Christian friends. If every Christian teacher chose to teach at Christian schools, my husband would not be there as a light shining support to kids whose parents beat them, who come from drug-addicted families or who suffer from depression. For me, the home life did not determine that I would become a Christian. The company I kept, did. So perhaps as well as thinking about how other children might be a bad influence on your kids, also consider how your kids might be a much-needed GOOD influence on them.
    I respect your right to homeschool your children and think your motivations are admirable. But I do find it offensive to suggest that those who make a different decision are inferior - we are, after all, also called to be fishers of men.

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Your KINDLY WORDED, constructive comments are welcome, whether or not they express a differing opinion. All others will be deleted without second thought.