Tuesday, May 31, 2011

Our wonderful holiday weekend

On Friday, our family was able to take our kayaks out on the Salt River with another family from our church (they brought their two kayaks along). First, my husband and his friend went with our two oldest sons, while us ladies stayed behind to watch the younger children. About an hour later, we traded off farther down the river and my friend and I went with just Solomon while the men stayed behind watching the kids. It was absolutely lovely! We saw a lot of native wildlife, including herons and other amazing birds, a young bald-headed eagle with a fish in its claws heading back to its nest in a rock outcropping, and a coyote that was not acting as shy as we would have liked it to - thankfully, we were on the river and the coyote was on the shore. In the past, we have also seen huge wild horses drinking in the river, but this time we didn't. 

We met up with our families about an hour and half later down the river, where we took the kayaks out and headed home. Since we had met at the river before 8 am, we were home again by noon and still had lots of time left to enjoy the day. 

The boys spent several hours playing outdoors in the yard and pool. In the evening, I went to the bike store and picked up my bike that had been out of commission needing new tires, inner tubes, and the brakes fixed. I was so glad to finally have it in working condition again! Before it got dark, I was able to drive it through our subdivision for a half hour. As I did so, I found some cards lying in the street. They turned out to be bank/credit cards, as well as an ID card with an address on it, so I returned them to the owner. They were thrilled and wanted to know if I had found the whole wallet. I told them I hadn't, but drove back to show them where I had found the cards. As we stood there, I spotted where the wallet had been tossed into a nearby front yard, with the contents spilling out of it.  It appeared there was still cash left in the wallet, so hopefully nothing important had been stolen. The people were really happy, and so was I.

Saturday was mostly a day of getting caught up around the house while my husband worked all day, although I did take my bike for a 4-mile trip around our neighborhood in the evening.

Sunday was busy as usual with two church services, as well as a going-away party and a baptism after the evening service. It was late by the time everyone had left our house (we baptize in our pool) and the kids were all in bed. The night was absolutely beautiful because it was cool and breezy, which is unusual for this time of year.

Yesterday, Monday (Memorial Day) was a GREAT day, partly due to the fact that we still had mild weather and were able to spend much time outdoors.

In the morning, the temperature was somewhere in the high 60s when I got up around 7 (I slept in - HA!). My husband said he would feed everyone breakfast and hold down the fort so I could go off bike riding in the cool morning breeze. The boys really wanted to come along on their bikes, so I agreed. Because I will not allow them to ride even on the side walk next to the busy streets where we live, we loaded our bikes into the back of the van and drove a couple of miles down to a park that is adjacent to one of Tempe's many bike trails - trails that are open only to non-motorized vehicles.

I had never been on these trails before, and oh, was I in for a pleasant surprise! Riding next to the canals gave us a nice, beach-like breeze. The pavement was immaculately smooth, the terrain was flat, and we just kept going. After three miles of winding through parks and along golf courses, enjoying the smells of desert vegetation and freshly-mowed grass, we turned around to go back because I knew Annie cannot be left for more than an hour and a half. She is still exclusively breastfed. In all, the four of us effortlessly rode 6 miles in about one hour.

We got home just in time for my husband to leave for his kickboxing class, something he has been enjoying tremendously. By lunchtime, the boys had folded all the laundry that needed to be folded and put it away while the girls played in their newly rearranged bedroom, which is now a miniature "house" for them complete with a baby crib, kiddie kitchen, shopping cart, and toy cleaning supplies.

While the kids were busy, I was looking on craigslist for a new bike for Solomon. During our ride in the morning, I noticed that his 20" bike was getting really small on him. The back wheel was also bent out of shape from a recent collision with one of his brothers, and the tire (outer tube) itself was so worn it needed to be replaced. I was able to find a really nice, like-new 21-speed aluminum-frame bike for him for ridiculously cheap. I made arrangements to pick it up in the afternoon because I was hoping we would all be able to go bike riding as a family at night.

We had BBQ pork ribs and potato wedges for lunch. Afterward, my husband left to go soulwinning for a few hours while the girls napped and the boys enjoyed some quiet time reading and coloring. I cleaned the kitchen and the van, and started on dinner. After the girls woke up we went to pick up Solomon's bike, and I finished making dinner - a copycat version of Island's Yaki Tacos, a family favorite. My husband fed and watched the kids while I went out soulwinnig for an hour myself in the evening. 

As soon as I got home, we packed up the van with our bikes once more, because Solomon wanted to try his new bike and I wanted to show my husband the awesome bike trails. He is going to have to work like crazy all June, so this was our last chance to get family time this week. Since we do not have a bike trailer or a baby bike seat, my husband rode his bike with the three boys, while I pushed the stroller with Becky and Anna in it on my roller skates and Miriam rode her little bike beside me. Boy, what a workout that was! The tires on my skates did not spin easily at all, so it took a lot of effort - I definitely got a good workout! 

Today, Tuesday, we went to the dentist for some work on Isaac and myself, and for Miriam's checkup. It went as well as can be expected. Miriam was so proud of herself. She told me the ingredients in the paste they used to clean her teeth: cantaloupe, cheese, lemon juice, onions, garlic, spicy bell pepper, and "numb" - but she assured me that there was NO fluoride in it!

Later we stopped by the bank, where Isaac found a $20 bill lying in the bushes outside. To say he was thrilled would be an understatement! He had given his last penny to help pay for the kids' kayak (which, in the end, was 100% paid for between the three boys), and he really badly wants to be able to buy a fishing rod before we go camping this summer. Lest anyone get all worked up again, rest assured that we asked if anyone had reported losing a $20 bill as soon as we got into the bank, but nobody had. They have our contact info just in case, but it looks like the money is Isaac's to keep.  

After lunch, we did some school work while the girls napped, and right now they are all playing outside in the still unusually cool weather. Wow, this global warming is great! :)

Not much else left to do today other than running some errands, going to the library, and making dinner. I am hoping to finish answering the remaining questions on the Q&A this week. Sorry for the lack of photos in this post, hopefully I'll get a chance to post some later this week. I also have a little gem for all those precious people at Fundamental Forums, Sweeping the Cobwebs, Free Jinger, and whatever other little gossip/slander/envy outlets there are. No, really, you will like this one! We'll see when I get around to that.

And oh, I won a giveaway last week! Which reminds me, it is not too late to enter THIS giveaway on the blog of a precious lady from Ireland that I tremendously enjoy reading. You can win the latest Duggar book, due for release in a few days. 

Have a great week, everyone!

84 comments:

  1. Were those really the ingredients in the paste?? It sounds horrible! And what is wrong with fluoride?

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  2. This is completely off topic and I apologize for that, but if either you or your husband could help me understand if ordinary people can learn to develop healing powers like Jesus had? A woman is trying to convince me to attend her church and learn how to heal but it seems completely unbiblical to me. Wasn't Jesus the only one who can heal? Any helpful Bible verses would be completely appreciated.

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  3. Sounds like a fantastic weekend! Quick question - how did you find a dentist that supports not using fluoride? I've been trying to replace my kids (and our) toothpastes with organic/natural versions that exclude toothpaste, but my husband is all worried about the cavities. And our dentist (who is generally a very nice guy but not necessarily and outside-the-box thinker) told him fluoride is great/important, etc. etc. Any ideas?

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  4. Sounds like you're living the life and I can't wait to see what you got up your sleeve! ;)

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  5. Gossip/slander/envy outlets?

    You mean like your blog?

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  6. There is nothing slanderous, envious or gossipy about your blog. I am familiar with one of the sites you mentioned, and, honestly, you have never seen such a sorry bunch of women. Most of them are on SSRIs, a lot on foodstamps and other govt. assistance, piles of them are divorced...etc. In a sense, I am glad they gather there so as to stay away from the rest of us.

    Your week-end sounds wonderful!!!! Ours was very nice as well, but the clean-up on Tuesday was no fun, lol.

    in His peace,
    Miriam

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  7. Whew!! What a busy and fun weekend. I enjoy riding my bike, too. It is such a relaxing and refreshing activity for me. Glad your family has been able to enjoy your new kayaks. Did the girls get to ride in them, or are they too little yet?

    I noticed that you referred to Anna as "Annie". Do you sometimes call her that? That is an absolutely adorable name for her, and I think it fits her too! And congrats to Isaac on his find.

    I don't agree with everything you say, but I truly enjoy reading your blog, copying your recipes and hearing about your lovely family. Thank you for sharing.

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  8. Oh, I can't resist.

    Sssssslander is sssssspoken. If we're guilty of anything, it's libel. If you're going to accuse of a crime, please make it the right one.

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  9. Wow, what an action packed weekend! Kayaking, biking, returning stolen property, church, soulwinning, kickboxing, dental checks...phew! Glad your family had such an enjoyable time Zsuzsanna!

    Hooray for Isaac finding $20!

    I am curiously waiting to see what you will write about our 'friends' who like to tattletale over at gossip sites! ;)

    Thank you for the link to my giveaway! There have been quite a few entries so far...everyone loves the Duggars I guess!

    I hope you are enjoying your week!

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  10. Hi Zsuzsanna, I hope you don't consider this too personal of a question, but do you ever pump breast milk for your babies? I also exclusively breast fed both my babies, but would pump occasionally if I knew I would be away from them for a while (like going out to dinner with my mom or something like that). I was fortunate that both my girls transitioned easily to a bottle. I know some babies are more fussy about that.

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  11. Dear Zsusanna,

    So much for not allowing gossip. You approved the following from Miriam:

    There is nothing slanderous, envious or gossipy about your blog. I am familiar with one of the sites you mentioned, and, honestly, you have never seen such a sorry bunch of women. Most of them are on SSRIs, a lot on foodstamps and other govt. assistance, piles of them are divorced...etc. In a sense, I am glad they gather there so as to stay away from the rest of us.

    For the record, yes I take anti-depressants, but I also take medication for diabetes and acid reflux as well. I'm able to pay for these medications, not because I'm on welfare and food stamps, but because I have a good-paying job with decent health benefits. I got this job because the hiring manager wanted to find out why a person with a Juris Doctor (law degree) was working as a senior help desk technician. I live in a nice townhouse in the next town over from you and I have a decent life as a single, never-married, tax paying, gainfully employed woman with two cats. (Yes, a dreaded CAT LADY.) And I talk to my elderly father at least once a day.

    But seriously, you shouldn't put up a post by someone who says your blog doesn't have gossip and then she goes right ahead and gossips about us snarkers. *rolls eyes*. Hypocrite much?

    Warmest regards,

    Deana Holmes
    mirele@gmail.com

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  12. Wow, just went for the first time to that free jinger site. What a bunch of nasty hags! For the record, i'm a "fundie" and proud to me

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  13. Dear Miriam,

    I am on SSRI's to help me to get through life after the death of my younger son (28) last year.
    Although I am a widow, I have never been on welfare for even an hour, nor have I ever been on food stamps, because I was perfectly capable to earn my own money and send my sons to university. Now I am an emiritus (retired) professor and indeed I have a 16 year old ginger cat.
    The hate and intolerance on this blog is shocking not to mention the judgement towards working mums, day care, pro choice, gays and the list goes on and on.
    I'll be more than happy to stay away from you all, you are not exactly fun to be around.
    As an atheist I obviously don't believe in an hereafter, but in your terms I'll rather be in hell than in heaven with you lot.
    Zsuzsanna, as you well know, English is not my first language and I never lived in an English speaking country for 11 years like you do. So spare me your criticism on my use of the English language.

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  14. It so surprises me that a lady who has a 'hobby' such as 'snarking' would feel the need to justify her entire life here?!

    I'm quite sure that Zsuzsanna doesn't need advice on what comments she should allow. ;)

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  15. Latraviata,

    I am sorry to hear you are on SSRIs. I have translated many medical articles about them, and oh, what nasty stuff.

    If you neither believe in God nor a hereafter, why do you have such a hard time coping with the loss of your child? According to your beliefs, he was nothing but a bunch of random molecules making up a physical body, without anything intangible such as a soul or spirit. According to you, he simply ceased to exist. I am terribly sorry for your loss, because I KNOW that death is NOT the end.

    You are "stuck" on earth right now with us people. Even though you do not believe in heaven or hell, you would rather choose the latter instead of being stuck with us. Then why do you take drugs to help you extend and make it through life if according to you you'd rather be in hell separated from people like us, even if the alternative is heaven (much less this world)?

    Do you see how your actions (mourning the loss of your son, trying to cling on to life as best as you can) betray your real thoughts and emotions regarding the hereafter? There is no such thing as an atheist, only people who are angry at God and think that they can make Him go away if they ignore Him long enough.

    Honestly, I truly feel sorry for you and hope you will find the peace that only God can give. If it were not for meeting my husband and learning the truth, I most likely would have ended up just like you. You don't have to be like us to be a Christian. You simply have to believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven, and ask him by faith.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And now, for some anonymous love, I copied and pasted the following comment with an edit to take out potentially offensive language:

    "Did you have to also put on a new wider seat on your bike? You've become a little broad in the beam (wide, fat [edit]/hips)."

    No, thankfully, the bike came with a very comfortable and WIDE seat. You may call me stupid AND fat, but at least I am not a coward like you!

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  16. Spooky,

    I would pump milk occasionally to leave home with my husband and the baby, but I have a hard time pumping. It's easiest to feed her just before leaving, and then she is usually happy and full for a couple of hours.

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  17. Zsuzsanna

    This one of the stupidiest comments you have ever posted.
    I love my children as much as somebody who believes in god, like yourself.
    I have a hard time coping with his death because of the simple feeling of loss which has absolutely nothing to do with god, religion or whatever mumbo jumbo you and your husband are preaching.
    Studies and very reliable research show the duration and the intensity of the mourning process of believers and non believers is exactly the same.
    You obviously never lost a child and really that is not what I wish for you, so you have absolutely no clou whatsoever how it feels and how to cope with losing a child, god or not, it doesn't make any difference.
    My son lives on in our sweet memories of him and I am proud that he is my son, because he still is.
    Atheists are not angry with god, because god doesn't exists, bald is not a hair colour I am not angry at all, just sad. Don't pretend to have all the answers. Believing in god is nothing more than seeking for explanations and answers and filling these voids with fairy tales.
    So, please you are only 32 don't try to teach me a lesson about berievement and spare me your sympathy, you have obviously no idea what you are talking about.

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  18. I have translated many medical articles about them, and oh, what nasty stuff.

    As long as you have to translate medical articles, I don't give a toss about the articles nor the editors.
    All medical articles of any significance are written in English and no editor will take the trouble to have the articles translated. So it obviously concerns a very obscure segment of alternative healing/medicine.
    My son is a medical specialist and all he publishes is in English which is mandatory.

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  19. I think your comment to Latraviata is one of the most heartless, cruel statement I have ever read on a blog.

    You make me ashamed to share the name of Christian. Ask yourself if Christ would ever have repllied to a suffering woman who had lost a son like that. You should be ahsamed of yourself.

    How can you imply that she should not grieve?

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  20. Zsuzsanna, I have read some absolute tripe in my time but you take the biscuit with this.

    What on earth has being an Atheist to do with experiencing grief? Atheists go through exactly the same emotions as you do. You didn't suddenly gain the ability to experience grief or love when you became a Christian. It is something that we are born with.

    Sometimes I despair of Christians like you.

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  21. Good lord. Zsuzsanna, did you really just imply that mourning death is inconsistent with the belief that there is no god? Are you implying that atheists are incapable of love?

    You know nothing about atheistic beliefs. Maybe you should have an actual conversation with an atheist before you make disgusting assumptions about their beliefs.

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  22. Latraviata, I don't believe L'Institut Pasteur is aware of your strictures for publishing medical research. Please inform them at once for the sake of the entire human race.

    I am sorry for the loss of your son. I am more sorry that you do not have the Lord to comfort you.

    in His peace,
    Miriam

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  23. Out of all the hateful things you have ever said, I don't think anything can top what you just said to a mother who lost her child. I won't be commenting on your blog any more. I'm truly saddened that a mother who lost her child was spoken to that way.

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  24. Zsuzsu, I read here a lot but you have completely lost me. That comment to the lady who lost her son was the most un-Christian thing I have ever heard someone say! A person is hurting, grieving over the loss of a child, and that is the time that you choose to drive the last nail through their palm?

    I am pretty sure I'm not the only person who will never be back here.

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  25. Nowhere am I suggesting that L should NOT mourn the loss of her son, or that his death is not a tragedy. I was trying to understand why someone who thinks we are only temporal beings would mourn the loss of a collection of random matter. In L's mind (not mine), her child differs nothing in value from all other matter in the universe. The fact that she DOES mourn proves that even in her mind he was more than just a physical body, and that she is more than just an outer shell herself. After all, one tree doesn't mourn for another tree next to it being cut down. We as humans have eternal souls and spirits, which is why we experience emotions.

    L is a regular stalker of me and my husband, and that's totally ok with me. I have expressed my condolences to her in the past, and she only ever rebuffs me no matter how polite I am with her. She probably spends as much time trolling us on the internet, reading what we post, commenting on what we write, and listening to what my husband preaches as we spend going to church each week. If that is her religion - fine.

    But hey, if this means theologygeek and some other anons no longer visit here - all the better. It won't keep me up at night.

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  26. I've been lurking here and never planned on commenting, but I felt compelled to at this point- I am shocked and appalled by your reaction to Latraviatra and her callousness towards the death of her child. As the beloved daughter of atheist parents, I can assure you that all parents worth their salt adore their children wholeheartedly. You do not need to have faith for that. You do not need to believe in God to mourn the loss of a beloved child who brought joy and sunshine into your life. To imply that she has no reason to be grieving because she does not believe in God- as if love and pain is something exclusive to Christians- is incredibly obnoxious. I sincerely believe Christ would be perturbed at the things you profess in his name.

    As Ghandi once said- "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

    Perhaps you should think of what Jesus would do or say in any given situation, and try to emulate that instead of immediately being snide and self righteous.

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  27. Latraviata, I don't believe L'Institut Pasteur is aware of your strictures for publishing medical research. Please inform them at once for the sake of the entire human race.

    http://www.pasteur.fr/ip/easysite/pasteur/en
    Well their website is also in English, you suggest they are my strictures to publish in English? You are obviously not a scientist.
    And Zsuzsanna is taking care of the human race by translating articles from the Pasteur institute??

    I am sorry for the loss of your son. I am more sorry that you do not have the Lord to comfort you.

    Have you any idea of the reach of your words?
    Well, losing a child is one thing but not having the comfort of the lord in is terrible, are you insane?
    What on earth is wrong with you people?

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  28. Turn the other cheek.

    Hold to a higher standard.

    And yeah, don't let the commenters you agree with/like commit slander--that just weakens your position.

    That is my advice.

    I tend to follow these point and counterpoint situations (such as Free Jinger vs. the 'fundies' and other so-called internet 'trainwrecks). Been doing it for years. I find the psychology and sociology fascinating.

    One thing I've learned is you can't engage--everyone loses at that point. You can only be you and that is the only thing that is worth your energy and time.

    Emme

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  29. It does not require a diety to believe in a soul. Many non theistic faiths believe in souls.

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  30. Latraviata, you are over-reacting. I have also lost a child. Without the strength of the Lord I would also have lost my mind. I was simply saying your pain is worse because you cannot lean on Him.

    Zsuzsanna, I apologize for hijacking your comments. I will not be offended if you don't publish this. BTW, I fail to see how you were in any way cruel.

    in His peace,
    Miriam

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  31. Zsusanna, you seem to be missing the forest for the trees when you assume that one must believe in God to be able to mourn death.


    I am an atheist. My daughter is composed of molecules, yes, but she is also more than that. She is her actions, her beliefs, her thoughts, her personality...she is everything which makes her unique as an individual. If she were to die, I wouldn't be mourning the loss of the collection of molecules which made up her body, I would be mourning the loss of the person my daughter is.

    Atheists acknowledge that people have inherent worth. The only difference between our beliefs is that I don't believe that that worth comes from a divine source; I believe that our person-hood gives us worth. Even if there's no such thing as a soul, the fact that humans are sentient, thinking, feeling, loving creatures makes life a precious thing.

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  32. Miriam, my husband used to work in a national scientific lab in France. They write their papers in English. It is standard in scientific publishing. They did all their work in English, as well. He was sometimes asked to read their papers for fluency, but they all spoke and wrote excellent English, and there was no need for a translator in a well-respected scientific laboratory. He has visited labs in China, Germany, France, etc.--they all publish in English.

    They do, however, eat their lunch while speaking their mother tongue. This is how he learned French--just ask what 'rognons de boeuf' are! (And he'd advise you not to order them.)

    LaTraviata, I am so sorry for your loss.

    ZsuZsanna, I am sorry for your response. I hope you can pray and reflect on how best to show Christ's love, because quite frankly, that wasn't it. You blew it. You let your temper take over, and you sounded self-righteous, arrogant and mean. He taught you better ways to handle that situation.

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  33. Wasn't the socialist bike trails fantastic???? One of my favorites. I'm surprised you don't use more government-funded stuff with your large family. I have sucked every last cent of my taxpayer money out of libraries, parks, bike trails, state parks, national parks, community pools, community centers, classes, preschool, and now public school. It's hard to hate the system when you get as much enjoyment out of it as I do. Every time my MIL starts complaining, I tell her,
    "Thank you for paying your taxes, so your grandchildren could check out 25 books and do arts and crafts at the library for 2 hours today." I plan to use every last cheap and free resource available to survive summer, or Hotter As Hell, as I call it.

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  34. I don't understand why atheists are concerned about doing right and wrong? If there is no god, then what would be the point? All our morals come from the Bible. Where eles did they come from? We feel emotions because we have a soul that came from God. It would make no sense to care about anyone eles if there was no God. Nothing would make sense. Maybe some of you people can't read, Zsuszanna didn't say L shouldn't morn her son, she was asking why because atheists believe we do not have souls. If they did that would be very strange. God doesn't believe in atheists, the Bible says in every man's heart he knows there is a God. Oh and I'm sure she will be upset that people who leave hateful rude comments all the time, aren't going to come back! Lol!

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  35. Kayla,

    If all that it takes to get to Heaven is accepting the Christ as your personal savior, then what is the point of God giving us morals? Is the single mother prostitute drug dealer as good a Christian in your eyes as the meek and modest housewife who submits to her husband and would rather die than take birth control, even if they both believe that Jesus died on the cross for them and both are saved? They're both going to Heaven, right?
    Not believing in a higher power does not stop a person from feeling. It doesn't take away a sense of wonder or appreciation for life and the world around us. It doesn't render people into lumps of molecules and chemical processes. And it doesn't stop someone from wanting to help people who need it. I suppose you could say that atheists- and many non-afterlife-centered religions, like Taoism- don't need a promise of an eternal reward to do the right thing. We do it because we love our fellow man and want to make other people as comfortable as we can. Not because God wants us to be nice to each other, but because we want to be nice to each other without needing prompting.

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  36. I understand your point and have been thinking about other examples..like atheist who say that they have morals but morals come from God,from the Bible. Also why do so many women who have an abortion feel depressed afterwards if it was just a blob of tissue? So many other examples but it all comes down to deep down inside..we know the truth.

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  37. A person does NOT need a bible in order to have morals.

    Seriously, do you need a bible to tell you that it is wrong to steal or murder someone?

    Also, many of you are confused. Zsuzsanna does not believe in Christian love. She only believes in Christian hate.

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  38. Miriam
    Latraviata, you are over-reacting. I have also lost a child. Without the strength of the Lord I would also have lost my mind. I was simply saying your pain is worse because you cannot lean on Him.

    Miriam you are lying in the name of your religion, which is not nice. You must have your right and you will get it no matter what, even if you have to make up a deciesed child.
    You are not only insane, you are evil.

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  39. Be Silent!

    When you loose one of your children, and the odds are in your favor given the large litter you've had, I'll only feel sorry for the remaining children.

    It rains on the just and unjust. Didn't read part in the Bible, did you.

    You, pa ZsuZsu, are the most compelling argument for at a minimum Universal Unitarianism and at most atheism.

    Lucky for you, there is no hell. Most likely fabricated to manipulate sheeple, such as yourself.

    MizAntiOrganizedReligion...

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  40. We do the right thing because we want to, we want to please and serve the God that made us, died for us and loves us no mater what. His still judges us for what we do. We will get rewards in heaven when we die. Also on earth we can get blessed or punished depending on our works. What your saying doesn't make sense, maybe you just can understand that. If you think we are all just here from nothing, a explosion or whatever, then why are we compelled to do the right thing? Helping people comes from the Bible. People have a soul, that God made, inside them. That's why people feel bad when they do wrong, and want to help suffering people. If you have no higher power to answer to, then what would be the point of doing right. I know there is no such thing as an atheists, the Bible says that. Most everybody I have ever heard say they are an atheists are really just bitter or mad about bad stuff that has happened to them. I pray you will put your trust in Christ, he has given his life for you, and loves you more than you will ever know. It's the truth, if you don't want to accept it, it doesn't change it, its a fact. If I'm wrong, then I guess when I die nothing will happen, if your wrong, I'm sorry you would put yourself in hell by refusing to trust in Christ. Pain and torture for ever, there is no getting out. Not because you do bad things, or don't go to church. Only because you refuse a free gift available to all us sinners. I'm a sinner that is no better than anyone eles, and needed to get saved as much as you or anyone.

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  41. L is a regular stalker of me and my husband, and that's totally ok with me. I have expressed my condolences to her in the past, and she only ever rebuffs me no matter how polite I am with her. She probably spends as much time trolling us on the internet, reading what we post, commenting on what we write, and listening to what my husband preaches as we spend going to church each week. If that is her religion - fine.

    My last posting on your blog:

    Honestly Zsuzsanna, you have expressed your concolences and I have been stalking you and your husband and that justifies your absurd and mean reply?
    Indeed as a behavioural scientist I am intrigued by you and your husbands behaviour, ideas and how your mind works, so yes I follow your blog. And it doesn't take that much time to conclude there is something very, very wrong with the two of you. I cannot even listen to your husbands sermons for longer than five minutes because of his awful shrill voice to start with, the contents of his sermons are very amusing at best and not in the least to be taken seriously at all, with the exeption of course when your husband decided that Obama had to die and one of your followers showed up with a gun.
    It is clear you have absolutely no concept of what atheism means, so don't bother to comment on that.

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  42. Why does one need a God to know the difference between right and wrong? An atheist does the right thing simply because it's right, not because he's afraid of burning in hell.

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  43. Miriam,

    please accept my apology if posting L's last comment was offensive to you. I only did so to show her true colors. I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your child.

    L,

    your comment was vile. Do you think you are somehow unique in having lost a child? I know MANY people who have.

    The Bible says that we "sorrow not, even as others which have no hope" because we know that we will see our deceased loved ones again. You, however, will NEVER see your son again, and it is not because he stopped existing. That thought would drive me to mind-numbing drugs, too, so I pity you.

    Why would someone who needs to take SSRIs be a behavioral specialist?? Shouldn't you work on resolving your own issues first? How can you clearly analyze anything if you are in an altered state of mind? You are like a drunk person holding AA meetings.

    And as for the medical articles I was referring to - please! My confidentiality agreements forbid me to disclose what companies or agencies I work for, but let's just say that one agency I work for translates for 5 of the 10 largest pharmaceutical companies in the US. Apparently unbeknownst to you, there are German medical journals that US companies pull articles from for research.

    Please do spare me from future comments of yours. I think it's time to go take your meds.

    Previous anon commenters,

    I am fully expecting you who were grandstanding my (in your mind) inappropriate comment to L to likewise express your outrage about her hateful comment to Miriam.

    And if your morals are not based on a higher authority, how can you force those beliefs on anyone else? Apparently, animals do not think it is wrong to steal from one another, or to kill and eat each other. So why do you think it is, if you are just an evolved animal? This is a rhetorical question, as I could not care less about your answer. Please go hug a tree or a pillow or your dog, and leave me alone.

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  44. L said
    "Miriam you are lying in the name of your religion, which is not nice. You must have your right and you will get it no matter what, even if you have to make up a deciesed child.
    You are not only insane, you are evil."

    But Zsuzsannah is cruel? You disgust me. You know absolutely nothing about me, yet you create this fiction to justify yourself. You alone have lost a child since the beginning of the world. I think perhaps you should consult your physician, as clearly your medications are not working.

    in His peace,
    Miriam

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  45. Zsuzsanna, there is absolutely no need to apologize. The Lord sustained our family in this loss as He does with all things. I know I will see my child again, and I know she has been spared much pain because Jesus took her home to Him. My grieving for my child is selfish, but sometimes I can't help it, you know? Thank you for your sympathy.

    You need not publish this comment, I just wanted you to know there was no need for apologies. God bless you!

    in His peace,
    Miriam

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  46. Latraviata~ You say we are not so fun to be around.

    You are a miserable person and anyone who has one eye could see that.

    You want to cut people with your words, you are hateful amongst many other things.

    Did you ever stopt to think that the Lord allowed your son to die to wake you up? WAKE UP!

    I agree, your meds seem to not be working. For the profession you are in, you certainly have it all wrong. You call Z unstable and all sorts of things but YOU my friend are clearly unstable, hateful and have nothing better to do with your time.

    Why dont you use your life for something worth while? Instead of listening to me, I know you will rush over to all the other miserable jerks that love to hate as well.

    Just because your son is gone, does not mean you are gonna get special treatment. You are MEAN and hateful Latraveta and you need the Truth, Jesus.

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  47. Please, Atheist can know right from wrong and have morals? If they were really evolutionist their mindset would just be survival of the fittest. What is it that makes you different from animals? God created heaven and hell, right from wrong, women and man. Jeffrey Dahmer did the most sick twisted things because he said he thought we were all nothing but pond scum. All you are doing is taking out the parts you like and trashing the rest. Hey it's your life, good luck with that!

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  48. I don't know if you read Diana's blog (The Whining Puker), but she found out Tuesday that she's pregnant and is already (at just abou 4 weeks) experiencing hyperemesis again. I know she's posted here before and I'm sure she'd appreciate your prayers. She went to the doctor yesterday afternoon and hasn't posted either on her blog or facebook since. I'm an HG mom, too. That's how I found her blog.

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  49. Hi! I am one of those "nasty hags" from Free Jinger. I am looking forward to your post directed to "sorry" women such as myself. Your posts just make me so grateful for my life/husband/family/job.

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  50. whoa! This is what I miss when I leave blog world for a bit. I am glad you had a lovely weekend. It is still so cold here. Hailed today! I am amazed that a post about your weekend can turn into crazy madness, over nothing. You will never win with these people. They are so far gone and will stop at nothing. Oh, by the way Zsuzsa you are not wide. You are beautiful and they just hate to hate. If you wrote a post about your tree, they would be "hanging" you with it in a second. Take care!

    Oh, hope my spelling and grammmmmmmarrrrrrr are ookayyyyye for them!!!! HA

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  51. I'm curious as to why Latraviata gave out this information initially? No one called her out by name, and she is a dissenter of this blog. Why would she want comfort from the author of a blog that she abhors?

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  52. Nice try, Karen R. Dennis Rader was a devout member of his church. He was also a serial killer. Good and bad people exist in every religion and non-religion.

    I would tread carefully when accusing atheists of picking out the parts they like and ignoring the rest. I've actually read the bible. Have you?

    Personally I've always thought people who behave themselves only out of fear of some vengeful God to be worrisome. I treat people decently because it's the right thing to do. Because I have compassion and empathy, which, apparently, some of you lack.

    Christine

    P.S. Not on SSRIs, married for 11 years, not on government assistance (my husband and I both have doctorates, although I'm taking a break from work to be home with my kids). I do have cats, though. Four. Plus two dogs. And one hamster. We like animals here. That compassion thing again.

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  53. Wow. You prove that you have no clue what atheism is about. How come, have you never met an atheist irl?

    I'm an atheist, and have been for as long as I can remember. I have been a member of the church but never been able to make myself believe (although I know that would make life easier, because then I don't have to think too much about existential questions). It would be nice to have this kind of fairy-tale with all these "simple" answers... but I fail to see how everything could be as simple as a God creating everything. It sounds like a story made by a person with a not so very advanced brain (a fellow human-being I presume). Actually I am very tolerant to other people's beliefs, and the reason why I even waste my energy on commenting this, is because you dare to claim that people who aren't Christians are less good/less moral.

    As atheists, we naturally think a lot about existential matters, and we question a lot. We don't take things for granted. We search answers, not in a book, but in a variety of books. We think for ourselves.

    When we do good things we do this simply because we think that what we do is good. I knit for homeless people because I think that would make them happy and warm in the Winter - not that it would make some kind of God happy or warm. I give money to the "Save children"-organization, because I love children, not because I love God (because how could I love something I don't think could possibly exist?). I help my friends and family, because I love and respect them - not because I love a God.

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  54. I have never been an atheist. I am grateful that I have always had a faith to lean on in times of great pain and loss.

    That said, Zsuzsana, even Jesus showed compassion to the Pagan Roman Soldier. He did not ssk the soldier to go and request the help of his gods, he simply healed his servant.

    I can understand that you find it difficult to see outside of your own worldview, especially as you believe with all of your heart and soul, that your perspective is both right and true. But, please, never let that belief keep you from speaking to someone, especially someone who doesn't share your faith, with compassion. After all, you are an example.

    Atheists can still know right from wrong. They suffer temporal consequences of good and bad decisions just like everyone else. They can understand how murder hurts people and find it wrong, without believing that there is an eternal consequence.

    Atheists can love, and want to do good for the sake of what it means to people now. They can want to be the best people possible because they believe this is the only chance they have.

    These are not my beliefs. I find it very difficult to imagine that we are only here now. That there is no God. At the same time, I can respect those whose beliefs are different from my own. I can learn from them and become a better person.

    It always strikes me how Christ ate with prostitutes, tax collectors, and sinners of all kinds. He showed love and compassion to all who passed his way.

    Zsuzsana, Jesus cried at the tomb or Lazarus, even knowing he was about to raise him from the dead. Grief is not related to one's sense of an afterlife, but one's sense of the here and the now.

    In fact, I think your logic might be backward. Shouldn't an atheist grieve more for believing that they will never see their loved one again? Shouldn't Christians grieve less for believing that they will? Of course not. Grief isn't like that.

    Please, step outside of the desire to impart your views, and acknowledge that there is a real woman there, who really lost her child, who really loved him, and is sad. And think for a moment, would Jesus use that as an opportunity to blast her for her lack of faith, or show kindness to her in her grief?

    Please don't forget that in your effort to share what you believe is right and true, you don't forget that you should live and show what you believe is right and true with you interact with others. Especially those who you might consider your enemy.

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  55. Wow.

    talk about interesting comments.

    1- I can't stand the free jinger crowd as they love to attack some dear friends of mine and I see them causing nothing but stress

    2- The attack against the women who lost her child is uncalled for. Things like that HURT. Yes, she could have healed quicker if she knew the Father and had a relationship with him but where is the love? Do we really think someone who is an atheist hurts less than we do?


    I mean really? The horrible attacks are going to make someone want to follow YHWH? I wouldn't if that's the response I got!

    How about a simple.. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss, my prayers are with you that YHWH helps you heal so you no longer needs medication.

    to the free jingers.. baiting people doesn't usually get good responses either. it swings both ways

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  56. I would just like to point out that some of the best people I have ever known are atheists. They do the right thing for the sake of their own conscience, not because of any belief in God. There are good and bad people in any religious/non-religious group, and frankly, it seems rather immature to look at it as We're Good, They're Bad. The world is a place of in between.

    Zsuszanna, your comment on SSRIs is kind of off base. This woman could be doing research, or teaching (in fact I think she said she is a professor emeritus). And depending on the area she's working in, she might have absolutely nothing to do with mood disorders. And anyway, what's the problem with that? I have a heart defect- should I stay away from cardiology? "Physician, heal thyself?" Tangents like that hurt your argument.

    I am sorry that this thread turned so vile.

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  57. I really like what Muse Mama had to say. Very eloquently expressed.

    I'm sorry for all the hurt on this thread.

    Emme

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  58. I found this blog on Perez Hilton. It was a post discussing how hateful Z and her husband are. I took a peek at the blog and did disagree with much Z had to say but I kept coming back, not to mock her and argue with her, but to learn more about the things she wrote about that I was interested in- the brewer pregnancy diet, natural child birth, breast feeding etc. I've learned much from her and I'm very grateful for her blog. When she writes about hating gays I simply go to a different website. I don't argue or berate or attack. I believe shes wrong, but you all know she will not change her mind so why even try to argue? She might hurt some feelings but its not like shes advocating rounding up gays and exterminating them. (i dont think....) You are all doing the same thing you are angry at her for. I know she is an intelligent, capable woman who can defend herself but maybe the free jinger crowd will listen to a feminist who isn't really sure what she believes in and protests for gay marriage, more than another "fundie." you live your life, let her live hers. She obviously loves her children very much and really isn't that all that really matters on a family blog such as this one?

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  59. Wow I can't believe how many atheists read her blog and care enough to comment. From their comments, it doesn't seem like they understand Christianity very well.
    Christians don't do good things just to please God. You act as if we have no feeling or care for people, and just do stuff because we feel we "have" to. That's not the case.

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  60. If Free Jinger harrasses you send a complaint to YUKU with the URL of the thread, and of course the URL of their rules instructing members to break links and cover their tracks.
    Free Jinger is wrong, and each person attacked needs to report them for stalking, cyber bullying,plagarising, stealing images, or whatever the specific situation might be.

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  61. I find it quite interesting how atheists are fascinated by Christians. A bit like moths being attracted to light and then getting burned at the light bulb. You know, I am a Christian, but I don't visit atheists websites, stalk atheist or try to get near them in any way. What is it that makes you so angry and obsessed that you can't let go of Zsuzsannas blog? If you don't agree with her why can't you just ignore her?

    Latriviata, why don't you use your behavioural psychology skills on yourself instead of swallowing pills?

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  62. Sue, I think that's what we're all arguing. Atheists and people of faith do the right thing for the same reason- because it's the right thing to do. Some people believe it's because we have souls, which allow us to feel, and some people believe that it's because of millions of years evolving as a social animal, where cooperation and helping one another allowed us to survive and evolve.

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  63. "...I most likely would have ended up just like you."


    The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

    Luke 18:11

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  64. Mrs. B, Zsuzanna and the rest: If you put yourself out on the Internet, if you're promoting your lifestyle, then there's a really huge possibility that someone is not going to like it and will comment on it. If you can't deal with that possibility, then maybe you shouldn't comment on public blogs. The same goes for blog owners--if you're going to promote yourselves on the Internet, you have to deal with the consequences of same.

    I know some of those consequences personally. These would include having a libelous website directed at me and many of my good friends put together by the adherents of a notorious space alien cult. That'd also include plastering my neighborhood with flyers displaying my picture and the caption RELIGIOUS BIGOT by members of the same space-alien outfit. Oh, and I can't forget the members of the space-alien cult who picketed my home a few times to let me know how wrong I was. Thing is, I've never been an a follower of the space-alien cult, neither have I ever been in one of their "churches." But I know what it's like to cross them, and yes, you can see this all over the Internet.

    You can whine about Free Jinger all you want, but the fact is, you're promoting a lifestyle that many of us find disturbing and troubling and we're going to comment on it. If you don't want us commenting on it, there is a solution, which is to go private. But I don't think you all can do that.

    Warmest Regards,

    Deana Holmes
    mirele@gmail.com

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  65. To all the (cat) ladies, who are on food stamps and/or SSRIs and stalking Zsuzsanna at the same time: Why don't you open up your own blog instead of obsessing about Zsuzsannas?

    You could share your atheist feminist philosophy with the world, post pictures of you and your pets and write things like that:
    "Yesterday, me and my cat went cayaking on the Salt River. We saw a lot of native wildlife and a coyote that was not acting as shy as we would have liked it to ..." or "The other night I thought it would be a cool idea to work out a bit in the neighbourhood. I pushed a stroller with the cat in it on inlineskates ...". See, you don't need to get bored with your lives and stalk other people because they lead so much more interesting and fulfilling lives, you know.

    If you want to get worked up on something, that should do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64xtjFXTcQI

    Zsuzsanna, you really inspired me to get off my lazy behind and work out in the evening, too. I am sure if you keep up that routine, you will get your lovely figure back in no time. By the way, ever considered low fat cooking? This really helps to shed the pounds. For a few tips pls visit http://www.niewiederdick.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39&Itemid=106.

    Try out the cooking with mineral water, you will be positively surprised ...

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  66. Rebecca A,

    your last comment about killed me laughing. Oh, Brits are funny people. See, having CCTV everywhere is SO IMPORTANT!!! I can't do low-fat because as it is, the milk I make for the baby is not as rich as I would like it to be. I reached my pre-pregnancy weight about a month ago, and although I could stand to lose another 20 lbs I have to take it easy for the sake of my milk supply. But yeah, maybe I should start pushing our 90+ lb dog around in a stroller every night... :)

    anon referencing Luke 18,

    I was simply saying that I sympathize with where L is coming from, and that I am glad I am no longer an atheist like she is.

    Ellie,

    if "helping one another allowed us to survive and evolve", how did animals evolve who kill and eat each other, steal from one another, and on and on? A "survival of the fittest" mentality leads to genocide and eugenics, not to helping the weakest link in what you consider to be nothing but a food chain. How can you and other atheists on here believe in absolute morals when you have no leg to stand on? You have no authority whatsoever to impose your values on anyone else. If you get mugged at the park at night, it was to advance the evolution of women who can run faster, punch harder, and/or scream louder. You should feel grateful for the opportunity to advance your species.

    Everyone else,

    my apologies, but I simply do not have the time to respond to every comment.

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  67. Zsuzsu,

    I'm actually not an atheist, but that's neither here nor there.

    You'll notice that while there are animals who kill and eat each other, steal from each other, and so on, there are also animals which live in closely knit family groups, who tend to each other and cooperate to further the survival of the family group. You'll also notice that among these social animals are other self aware, tool-using mammals, such as dolphins and great apes- gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans. Cooperation is an amazing survival tool- actively hunting, for instance, is energy intensive and risky, so it makes more sense to spread the risk out amongst several members of a group. Increased survival rates amongst individuals of a population leads to greater genetic diversity, which leads to a healthier population. Living in a group makes strong emotions important, and thus empathy and the ability to make emotional attachments are formed. You'll notice, if you do some research on the topic, that we are far from the only species to extend that empathy and "moral" behavior to others outside our species- dolphins have assisted shark bite victims, a gorilla named Bindi protected a small boy that fell into her pen and carried him to the keepers, and a lioness in a game reserve in Kenya protected an oryx calf from other lions. There are many, many examples in the natural world of animals- humans included- displaying empathic and moral behavior.

    Also, I'm not sure what the last part of your comment was about, as it didn't make much sense. I'm not going to touch on the suggestion that I get mugged, although that is pretty ugly of you- you'll notice I've been nothing but polite- and simply say that, having been in college in Europe, (especially with Germany's high school system, which is very different from the one in the US) you should know perfectly well that that is not how evolution works. I'm sorry that you're squashing the knowledge that you know you have and playing so ignorant here.

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  68. Ellie, I certainly wish you no ill whatsoever. I was trying to illustrate how silly the concept of evolution is.

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  69. I still fail to see how believing in evolution is in any way sillier than believing in creation, especially given the scientific evidence for evolution, but I'm not going to mock your beliefs or call them silly, since they're obviously important to you. I still maintain my stance however- I do not believe in the bible, nor subscribe to it's beliefs, and my moral compass points straight and true. You don't need Jesus to be a good person.

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  70. Ladies,
    YUKU is listening to you. The contents of your blog is your intellectual property, and YUKU agrees with you that FJ has crossed many, many lines, it would seem. YUKU is pulling FJ apart thread by thread. Thought you would all like to know.

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  71. How funny that people who seem to treasure free speech so much would want it taken away from someone else. I would expect more from "christians" if I didn't already know how you guys work.

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  72. Mrs. B, please forgive me if this hurts your feelings, but you are REALLY making home educators look bad by failing to apply logic and reason to this. Commenting (with attribution) on other people's intellectual property is the very definition of free speech. Parody, satire, and criticism are all protected. Hustler vs. Falwell comes to mind, which was won by Hustler, and nothing on that heathen FJ site even comes close. I am truly sorry for the pain and chaos they cause, but they are so absolutely, totally, and fully within their rights as Americans (whether American civil rights and Biblical principles are one and the same is debatable, of course) that I am amazed you don't understand this. Furthermore, though I've not noticed any difference, if Yuku really is suppressing their free speech rights, what makes you think yours and Mrs. Anderson's aren't next? Some of the Biblical positions on various issues are legally actionable hate speech under certain circumstances (just watch the first time some sodomite is assaulted and cites your blog, or Mrs. Anderson's, as inspiration.) Rev. Falwell lost the Supreme Court case because he was a public figure. Mrs. Anderson is also a public figure by virtue of being married to Pastor Anderson, and anyone who blog and actively seeks out traffic is arguably trying to become a public figure. Well, significantly lower legal standards for privacy and other concerns apply for public figures. (I was an attorney before the Lord blessed me with a husband and children.) Please be very, very, very careful what you attempt to do to those whose speech is offensive, for if you are being the salt and light the Lord commands, your own speech is FAR more offensive. You may sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. This is not a good path to go down.

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  73. I would like to clarify a few facts regarding FreeJinger.

    One thread on FJ has been removed by Yuku. This is thread which discussed the upcoming marriage of a man who was an alleged paedophile. Criminal charges had been made against this person and all the court documents are available online and are in the public domain. This thread deletion has been appealed by the mods at FJ as everything discussed was factual, verifiable and covered by Free Speech.

    Two or three posts in another thread were removed by Yuku. This thread was about a blogger and her views on medical care. I believe this has also been appealed as again the discussion was covered by Free Speech.

    No threads or posts regarding Zsuzanna and/or Pastor Anderson have been removed by Yuku.

    I would also like to give one minor correction to Bernice; FreeJinger members are an eclectic bunch. We are Christians (of all denominations), Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, Buddhists, Pagans and Atheists. We are not all 'heathens'.

    Bless you all!

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  74. I've never read here before, I am a devout Catholic and prefer Catholic blogs. Regardless, the Lord is loving and called us to be the same. And we are not to judge, only He is. I realize your post about atheists not mourning their dead was sarcastic, but that is really not a loving way to respond to someone who has loss a child, which I think God for on a regular basis has not happened to me and pray that it won't. If you want to witness, I'd suggest being a loving example as criticizing people is not likely to bring them to emulate your lifestyle. I have brought one person into my church, and another back to Christianity, maybe more that I don't know of. Never did it happen from my berating or lecturing them. I'm posting anonymously, but my name is Jenny

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  75. Bernice,please cite my hate speech.

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  76. Latriviata, why don't you use your behavioural psychology skills on yourself instead of swallowing pills?

    Well dear Rebecca, to answer your charming and endearing question, my academic skills have not much to do with coping with the devastating death of my younger son age 28 just a year ago.
    Taking a daily 10 mgr of an non addictive antidepressant gets me through the day a little bit easier. Mourning my child is a hard and emotional process and has nothing to do with behavioural or developmental psychology. It is hard and emotional for everybody in that situation, for the plummer, milkman, accounted and the professor emeritus.I would have thought that you as a christian should have enough compassion to understand that, obviously I am wrong.
    Let this be a lesson, atheists, christians , jews, pagans they all have feelings, even scholars and scientists have feelings.
    That is a though one isn't it??

    I said it many times it is hard to reason with ignorance and stupidity.

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  77. amen bernice!!!

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  78. Free speech is very different than harassment! The people at free jinger stock blogs like z's, and others, and leave many, many, nasty comments all the time. They even leave death wishes and horrible comments about their children. I have read some blogs where people have left sexual harassment comments to their children! I hope they reported it too! Let's see, theirs a site totally dedicated to harassing and hating on these blogs. I would think that is where these horrible comments are from. There are tons of members at free jinger, there's no way you can tell me you know every person there, and that they don't do that. They use "fundies" names, and say things like they beat or abuse their kids, when they have no proof, its just a speculation they make from stupid stuff. That's not free speech, that could get them in big trouble, and cause problems, when most likely it's untrue. Just because kids have to gasp do chores, and help take care of younger siblings doesn't mean they are abused! Their entertainment is stocking, and harassing other. That is not free speech! Z and other blogs like hers, from what I have seen, do not call out people by name and talk about how they hate them. They may say they hate homosexuals in general, just as homosexuals can say they hates us. However z does not stock their blog and leave them nasty comments all the time, or death threats!

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  79. Jenny,

    Please allow me to respond to you using your own words: "I'd suggest being a loving example as criticizing people is not likely to bring them to emulate your lifestyle"

    See - we all judge and critique others. Some of us are just aware of it, while you are only pointing it out to others without realizing that you yourself are "guilty" of it.

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  80. MrsB, the Biblical positions on a variety of issues, and in particular, on homosexuality, is legally actionable hate speech in many jurisdictions. If you are a Christian who holds to the Lord's truth about that issue, you are guilty of hate speech in jurisdictions that recognize such.

    Sue, you are demonstrating a woeful lack of understanding of legal concepts. One cannot set up a blog that invites comments from the public by having a comment function, neglect to use the moderation or other functions that would prevent unwanted comments from appearing on one's blog, and then cry harassment when one receives comments one doesn't like. Look up Hustler vs. Falwell, a Supreme Court decision. A pornographer published something saying that Rev. Falwell had fornicated with his very own mother in an outhouse. Because Rev. Falwell is a public figure and it was a parody, Rev. Falwell lost. That is how far free speech goes legally. The FJ bunch could take any clear public figure (like Pastor Anderson) and do something similarly disgusting, and it would be legally protected. As a former attorney, I'm quite nervous about the "test case" for such things, because given the public nature of the internet, it is arguable that all bloggers are *trying* to become public figures. You REALLY don't want to see the public figure standards applied to you, Mrs. Anderson, or other bloggers, and especially their children. (Remember, Rev. Falwell's MOTHER never did one thing to try to become famous herself.) A tit-for-tat war on free speech issues is one that, under current law and understanding of law, the forces of evil *will* win.

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  81. Latraviata - Not sure why you continue to come back here. Why would you stock Z's blog and leave her many nasty comments, then expect her to gush over you and be so nice when you tell her your son died a year ago? I bet she is being nicer to you, than your comments were to her. Your not the only one who has lost a child, or had something bad happen to them. It seems you keep stating your son died and act like your this nice, sweet person answering someone's "dear question". Making it look like people are picking on this poor innocent person, please! You have said so much nasty stuff on that harassing free jinger site. Why are you telling people how they shouldn't act hateful when your calling people ignorant and stupid? You are doing a fine job of showing us what thoes words mean.

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  82. Death threarts and sexual harassment comments are harassment! Everyone knows that "legal concept". I think blogs should be private, it's sad it has to be that way because of hateful, bitter people that are at free jinger and other sites. However just because someone has a open blog doesn't mean you have the right to send them hateful comments full of curse words and wishes of death or harm to them and their kids! Your house address is also public for all to see, or look up. That doesn't mean people can send you letters constantly cursing, and threating you. You could turn that in for harassment. I have read threads at free jinger where they state that people beat their kids and wifes. I have read every post of some of thos blogs, and there is NOTHING on it that would even come close to abuse, or even hint at it. That could cause a lot of problems for that family, if the wrong person reads that. But that would be what thoes free jinger people want. Just because they have different beliefs they don't like, free jinger people are the least tolerant I have ever seen. I have never read a blog more hateful, mean, hypocritical,and spiteful than what people at free jinger write, and they have the gull to tell others how a Christian should act!!! I don't understand how they think Z is so hateful, they are 10 times more hateful!

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  83. This is an interesting discussion to follow. My question is, do the community at FJ realise this MINORITY is doing these things. I had a look around the forum and saw multiple people upset at the deletions by yuku because, they said, there's nothing wrong with reading a blog. Does the majority of the community only read the blogs? And do they not realise a minority is giving them a terrible name because of their harrassment? Perhaps the community would police itself if it realised all it's troubles came from a group of people who take it much too far.

    I don't think anyone who writes a blog cares if people disagree or even talk about disagreeing with them on a forum, it's the nasty things said on the blogs, the threats, etc that are the problem. harassment is wrong. Perhaps someone who knows more about the situation than me can post to the forum letting their community know some of the hateful and threatening messages that are giving them such a bad name.

    I have the freedom to phone someone up, but if I continue to phone them with threats and harassment, legal action can and will be taken. That's the difference. I am no lawyer but I believe anyone who has actually recieved a death threat can persue it legally, even if it was over a blog. At least, I believe that to be the case here in Australia, but our laws are different in some instances.

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  84. Just to clarify, I have only once glanced at a thread about me on Free Jinger - someone sent me a link to it. I am the type who doesn't care, so I clicked out of it again without reading but the first few words, and have no intention of returning. All that to say I have no clue what is being said. I don't even know what YUKU is/stands for.

    But, I do get plenty of (unpublished) vile, hateful, and menacing comments to have an idea of what might be said on FJ and other sites. Ask me if I care - I don't. People will answer to God for it.

    However, since I do not intend to cast my pearls before swine and fill the troughs for these sites, I will no longer publish the post I was referring to. Such a shame - they really WERE going to like this one.

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Your KINDLY WORDED, constructive comments are welcome, whether or not they express a differing opinion. All others will be deleted without second thought.