Thursday, August 21, 2008

IVF a.k.a. Politically-correct eugenics

Here is an interesting article entitled "Frozen embryos 'better for IVF'". Previously frozen embryos have greater success rates than the "fresh" babies because only the fittest survive the thawing process. Another article reported on the same findings.

This article gives the details on a similar new procedure now available called "ultra-freezing": embryos are "plunged into liquid nitrogen – the coldest form of freezing known to man – before being thawed and then implanted". Attaching to mom's uterine wall is a comparatively easy task for these herculean survivors of the "ice age" they endure, brought on by their parent's cruel and cold selfishness.

This article outlined the benefits of a new chemical "fingerprinting" technique used in the screening of embryos, which could improve IVF outcomes by as much as 15%.

But just keep telling yourself that people who become parents by way of IVF are nice, normal, and loving. They are not. Here are a few case studies on that:

I want an IVF baby with my fifth husband... after I've posed for Playboy, says surgically remodelled Brigitte Nielsen

World's Oldest Mum Reunites With Twins

Calif. Supreme Court: Doctors cannot refuse IVF to lesbians

Mother's IVF quest for a baby boy delivers septuplets

Lesbian IVF couple both have twins - on the same day

Please excuse me while I go throw up.


  1. Trying again...I understand your beliefs, to an extent, on IVF. But, please consider that not all people who use IVF fall into the examples that you show. My best friend was able to have her first child by IVF. She implanted two embryos, and only one "implanted". The remaining embryos will be used for future babies. None will be discarded, nor did she consider implanting more than they would keep. AND, she is a church-going Christian.

  2. I think it's terrible that lesbian couples are able to use IVF to have babies. That is sickening. One of my elementary school teachers is a lesbian. Her partner had a baby via IVF. That makes me sad about the future of this baby. What kind of future does he have?

    There are a lot of Christian married couples who want to have children so badly. I understand some of them want babies so badly that they even resort to IVF. Some of them just don't know the truth about some things involved in IVF. Let me tell you my opinion on how good Christian married couples should deal with the inability to have children. I don't see anything wrong with them using fertility drugs because it is my understanding that fertility drugs cannot kill unborn babies. For example, if a woman has Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome, she can take some medicine that would help her to ovulate. If fertility drugs fail to work, I recommend that the married couple seriously consider adopting a baby. There are so many babies out there who need good parents. Perhaps, the married couple could adopt a baby of a young woman who seriously considered having an abortion because she didn't want the baby. I think we need to promote adoption more often. There are so many babies who need good Christian parents to adopt them.

    Christians need to be educated on IVF. I really learned a lot about IVF from your husband. I did have some reservations about IVF before because I felt like it was playing God. I also had an issue with how they freeze some of the unused embryos. They are human beings so that bothered me.

    I am just curious. What would your husband and you have done if you both could not have any children and fertility drugs didn't work? Would you both have adopted some children? The youth pastor at my sister's church and his wife adopted a newborn baby a few years ago.

  3. God says He knew us before we were born. All of us - no matter how we got here.

    My baptist, home-schooling friend is a mom of 5. All from IVF because that is what worked for her and her husband.

  4. There are wonderful traditional families that can not have children of their own which IVF is the only other option they have to have children that are theirs.

    I do not agree that every situation is right for IVF but I do not believe its the worst thing that is out there.

    Unfortunately everyone is not blessed with the fertility that you have been blessed with. Sometimes putting yourself in someone elses position might make you think more openly. I have a dear friend who has been through so much to have a child. It's sad because her and her husband would love to have one to grow their own family together. If she had to take the IVF avenue I couldn't blame her because I've been so close to her I feel her desperation.

    I agree that adoption should be promoted more in the US. The don't make it appealing nor do they make it easy.

  5. hudson6803,

    by the time your friend was left with the embryos she implanted/froze, many had died in the process - these were just the few that made it. Even of these, the majority will die due to failure to implant/attach to the uterine wall. These children are not given a fair chance of survival. The parents go through IVF knowing that the vast majority of babies will die. The fact that they call themselves Christians makes this even worse.


    I agree that many people are ignorant concerning the details of IVF. Unfortunately, most people doing it are not, though, because the process is explained to them thoroughly before they ever start IVF. It's just that it's hard for people to face the truth because they want a baby so badly.

    I have heard from several couples who went to a fertility specialist and got counseling for IVF, only to walk away better informed and completely disgusted by the procedure. All of these couples were eventually able to have children naturally.

    In the event that we were unable to have children, I do think we would have considered adoption. As far as fertility drugs go, I am not very well informed. I have read several reports recently about women who ended up with high numbers of multiples (a woman here in Phoenix got pregnant with 6 babies) after taking those. Different medications may have more of such an effect than others, but I think taking something that could make you get pregnant with 6 babies at one time is not right because it does not give the babies a fair chance of survival. There are many natural remedies and herbs that can successfully be used to stimulate normal, fertile cycles.


    I didn't say that God has anything against these babies. It's the parents' fault, not the child's. I am also well aware of the fact that many "Christians" use IVF.


    if putting myself in an infertile woman's situation would make me condone IVF, that would mean I believe in situational ethics. But I don't. I believe that if something is wrong, it is always wrong, for everyone, in every situation. Sure I feel bad for women who cannot have children (although I do think that most - though not all - just give up too soon, or caused this condition themselves in the first place). But that doesn't mean I condone murder.

    1. Have you ever heard of male factor infertility?

  6. Wow, I caused myself to have endometriosis from the time I got my period on? My good friend caused herself to have Hodgkins disease as a teenager and undergo chemotherapy which made her infertile?
    Gave up too soon? Hmmm, how is 7 years, multiple miscarriages, then we adopted and 10 years until I couldn't take the daily pain of endometriosis, having tried everything under the sun from medications, to holistics, to prayer, to surgery, so I had a hysterectomy, guess there is a special place in hell for me?

    I talked with my minster and prayed at great lengths throughout all of our treatments which included IVF. we were well informed, I am a nurse, we knew exactly what we were doing and I know to this day and always God loves me and doesn't consider me a murderer.

    I can happily say I consider myself a nice, normal, loving and caring person. Normal caring people don't judge and criticize and condemn other people. That is not the christian church or God whom I was raised with. I always find it humerous that those who are the most fertile are the most critical. It is sad really.

  7. I am curious to Misty and others who always say, just adopt, have you adopted? If there are so many children in the world who need homes, why keeping having biological children? Why not go and "save" these children who need saving-or is just the responsibility of the infertiles?

    I know my comments won't get published but it felt good to write them out.

  8. I was once prescribed Chlomid. The doctor said that particular drug doubles your chances of having twins, but will not cause you to have a whole litter of kids. There are stronger drugs that some people try if the Chlomid doesn't work that can cause that. I never took the Chlomid because I was told to fill the prescription once I started my period. I never started because I was already pregnant and didn't know it. I don't think it would be a sin to take Chlomid, but it could possibly indicate a lack of faith and prayer. Prayer worked for me, and I think God showed me that by giving me conception before I started the drug. I wouldn't condemn anyone for taking fertility drugs, but personally, I would rather adopt a few singletons than risk having sextuplets or whatever!

  9. Zsuzsanna,

    If I may, I would like to address some comments made by Misty regarding the fertility drug and adoption comments.

    As a bit of background, my only desire from the time I was a little girl was to be a wife and mother. God had a different plan for my life and I did not marry until I was 43 (for the first time), I'm 46 now and still childless even though I've done everything including a fertility drug (out of desperation). My chances for getting pregnant are slim to none at my age and continue to decrease. It would be a true miracle if it did happen.

    Pregnancies from fertility drugs have a 50/50 chance of carrying to term. I lost my baby at 8 weeks. It was devastating and I will never get over it.

    For anyone to casually and almost flippantly suggest that parents should just adopt because there are so many children out there needing parents doesn't have a clue about how expensive it is to adopt whether it be domestically or internationally. Infertile couples must first deal with the pain of not having a biological child (it is impossible for someone that has a biological child to comprehend what it would be like to have children that isn't a part of each of them) before considering adoption. Then comes trying to figure out how to pay anywhere from $15,000 - 30,000 to adopt a child (Average cost for domestic and/or international). If that is completely out of the realm of possibility (as it is for the average couple trying to make ends meet) then the next option is adoption through the state.

    Adoption through the state is a very invasive process. To add to the intrusion, the children the state has for adoption come with al kinds of issues that may require medications, therapy and counseling to deal with the trauma's they have endured through the process of either being physically/sexually abused, mal-nourishment which has led to developmental delays or disabilities, behavioral issues in their attempt to deal with being torn from the only home they knew (regardless of how bad it was, it was normal to them) separation from siblings (which can be some incredibly strong bonds to survive). These are not easy decisions for any couple to come to terms with in trying to have a family. My husband and I know this first hand. We can't afford to adopt any other way but through the state. It isn't easy but we want to help kids and have a family. This is the direction God is leading at this time and we are following. As much as we want to do this, we still would like a mini version of one of us. That pain does not go away just because we are trying to adopt. We have to prepare ourselves to handle a child with known issues, many of which will hopefully be resolved once the child is in a stable and loving environment. A biological child born with a disability may require some time to process it but that is a child that has been carried inside and there is a bond already there. Adoption of a child with a number of issues and an unknown amount of time until a bond is formed will be difficult.

    IVF is wrong, I do not believe that fertility drugs are necessarily right either because of the risk to miscarry is greater than the average pregnancy. Adoption is a much harder decision to make than most people realize and isn't one that can be made lightly.

    I haven't given up on a biological child, however risky that may be. I am however, trying to come to terms with that at my age having one is unlikely.

  10. Kris,

    I'm a single woman who has never married before. I have never adopted of course. But I feel like adoption needs to be promoted more since there are so many abortions performed.

    To everyone who reads this, I think that adoption needs to be cheaper. The youth pastor and his wife at my sister's church adopted a newborn baby a few years ago. They both had two biological children already, but the lady didn't feel like she was physically able to have another child. They both wanted another baby.

    I wish that some Christian couples who are unable to have children would go to abortion clinics and try to convince some ladies there to not have abortions and give up their babies for adoption to them.

    I just cannot support IVF. I think that a number of Christians don't really understand everything about IVF. Sometimes, fertility specialists don't explain all of the details.

  11. I'm not arguing whether or not IVF is morally wrong. My point was that you said, and I quote: "But just keep telling yourself that people who become parents by way of IVF are nice, normal, and loving. They are not."

    That's a blanket statement if I ever heard one. I used my friend as an example to show that there are very loving, normal and nice people who choose IVF. You can call her ignorant or a sinner...but it doesn't change a thing. You fully admit to be a sinner yourself, don't you?

    You and I have very different opinions about judging others. Funny how we can read the same Bible and come away so vastly different.

    Also, I'm sure you're aware, but pride is a sin.

  12. Kris,

    I said *** most - though not all - just give up too soon, or caused this condition themselves ***. You yourself chose to include yourself in what I called "most" women. Besides, I have known women with endo who were able to get pregnant unassisted, and others who weren't after years of taking birth control pills to control the symptoms (not an option I condone because of birth control pills' abortifacient properties).

    Just because your minister condoned IVF does not automatically mean that God does, too. Many ministers condone things that are against the Bible. The Bible clearly says that life begins at conception.

    The Bible never says not to judge. It says not to judge someone unless you are willing to be judged by the same standards. In fact, we are commanded to "judge righteous judgment", and that "the righteous man judgeth all things".

    While the Bible does command women to marry and bear children, there is no command to adopt. Nor is adoption superior to biological children. Why would I not fulfill my God-given task to do something I was never commanded to do? Maybe in addition, but not instead.

    Why is it that you sound so bitter about adoption?? Do you somehow think that you got a raw deal, like a second best? That would be extremely unfair to your children. It's not my fault that adoption fees are high and the process is tedious. In case you didn't know, having a baby isn't a cake walk, either. In fact, the mother risks her own life to bring a child into the world. A hospital birth is in the same price range as the adoption fees, and IVF is very expensive, too, so what does cost have to do with it? Insurance companies don't cover maternity expenses out of the goodness of their heart, the customers are paying through the exorbitant rates every month.

    I would consider adopting a child for the love and joy of it, but it seems that you just did that as a last resort - which maybe explains why you are so bitter about it.


    I am sorry to hear that you have never yet been blessed with a child, but I am so glad to hear that you still did what was right even in your difficult situation.

    You must certainly be right about how difficult it would be to adopt a child through the state, and the last thing I would want is the government intruding into my life more. I know that international adoption is very costly, but not more so than IVF treatment or maternity care (I, for one, do not have insurance and pay everything out of pocket). It would be nice if there were a way to lower the cost of adoption. I am just saying that any couple who can afford IVF can probably afford the adoption fees as well.

    It was new to me that fertility drugs only lead to a full-term pregnancy in 50% of cases, thank you for the info.


    yes, it is a blanket statement to say that any parent who knowingly and intentionally kills their child is not nice, normal, or loving. What I don't understand is how someone would not agree with that. So you can be a nice, normal, and loving parent even though you killed your baby?!? Yes, I am a sinner, but not all sin is equal. There is a difference between telling a lie and killing an innocent child, wouldn't you agree?

    Funny how we can read the same Bible and you don't know that life begins at conception.


  13. by the time your friend was left with the embryos she implanted/froze, many had died in the process - these were just the few that made it. Even of these, the majority will die due to failure to implant/attach to the uterine wall. These children are not given a fair chance of survival. The parents go through IVF knowing that the vast majority of babies will die.

    But the thing is, MANY embryos do not survive until implantation, whether conceived in vitro or in utero. Are you purposefully killing your children because you allow conception to happen, even though you know there is a chance an embryo that is conceived will not survive to implant in your womb? Of course not. The thing is, many embryos do not survive. Just because you know some did not make it because you conceived via IVF does not mean that you knowingly and willfully murdered them. God did not allow the embryos to survive for reasons known only to Him.

  14. imogene,

    purposefully killing a human being is not the same as an act of God. That's like saying that since over 40,000 people die in car accidents each year, it would be okay to kill the same amount of people intentionally for no reason whatsoever.

    Married people having normal marital relations and as a result becoming pregnant is what God not only intended but in fact commanded. But he never commanded to go to an IVF clinic and tamper with his design.

    If my 33-week old baby died in the womb for some unexplained reason, it would be nothing like going to an abortion clinic and having a late-term abortion. One is caused by God, the other by me.

    Babies who die through IVF do not even remotely have the chances of survival that a natural pregnancy has. But even if they were the same, one is a God-ordained method to have babies and the ultimate responsibility is on him, while the other is a modern invention of man that seeks to create a human life at any expense.


Your KINDLY WORDED, constructive comments are welcome, whether or not they express a differing opinion. All others will be deleted without second thought.